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Old Dec 02, 2002, 04:09 PM
Registered User
Oakland, ca, usa
Joined Oct 2000
471 Posts
Republicans explain this...

I'd love to hear an explanation of why the republicans removed the ban on awarding contracts to companies who incorporated offshore to avoid taxes. This looks like a perfect example of the public interest being sold off to lobbyists. There is lots of information on Congressman Richard Neal's site (here) . I have included a small excerpt below.

Quote:
The New-Jersey based Foster Wheeler, an environmental construction
company, and Accenture, a Chicago-based technology consulting firm,
were the top two companies in securing federal contracts in defense
and homeland security. Both firms last year reincorporated their U.S.
headquarters to Bermuda, a tax haven because it has no federal income
tax requirement.

Of the total $286,253,000 in contracts to Foster Wheeler, $248,835,000
was for work related to defense and homeland security, according to
the data compiled by Neal's staff and the House Ways and Means
Committee's Democratic staff. Forster Wheeler moved to Bermuda in May
2001.

Accenture, the consulting arm of Arthur Anderson, moved to Bermuda in
July 2001. It was awarded $281,904,000 in fiscal year 2001 and of
that, $144,834,000 was for defense and homeland security, the data
shows.

Neal and U.S. Rep. James Maloney, D-Conn., wrote the "Corporate
Patriot Enforcement Act," a bill designed to eliminate foreign tax
shelters for U.S. companies by sewing up a tax loophole that, Neal
says, siphons billions from the war on terror.

Yesterday, Neal and Maloney presented reporters with the findings of
their latest research - that 11 of the 25 U.S. companies they know
moved offshore and set up paper corporations received $1,075,185,000
in federal contracts of which $759,466,000 was specifically for
defense and homeland security.
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Old Dec 02, 2002, 04:25 PM
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Pepperell, MA, USA
Joined Jan 2001
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beats the snot out of me. I'll forego looking for Democrats being sold off to lobbyists if you'll admit that it happens in that party as well.
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Old Dec 02, 2002, 10:48 PM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
Big Foot 48's Avatar
Arizona
Joined Oct 2001
276 Posts
Since the primary obligation of corporations is to maximize their value to their owners (sadly forgotten by many in recent years), and it is legal to incorporate "off-shore", then they would be remiss for them not to do so. However, since tax law can be pretty much anything we want it to be, all it takes to fix this "problem" is for congress to close the "loophole".

To say companies shouldn't take advantage of existing tax laws is like saying all of us should have a residence in NY city and pay their high taxes as that would be the "right thing to do."

Public opinion will end the practice of off-shore incorporation, so fear not, our Federal treasury will continue to be fed. However, I wonder if a US corporation, say like ExxonMobil, does over 50% of their business in other countries, could we let them incorporate somewhere else? Should we make Sony incorporate in Delaware since the government buys their hardware?

Where does it end? Where are the Libertarians when we need them?
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 02:11 AM
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Oakland, ca, usa
Joined Oct 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by Big Foot 48
Since the primary obligation of corporations is to maximize their value to their owners (sadly forgotten by many in recent years), and it is legal to incorporate "off-shore", then they would be remiss for them not to do so. However, since tax law can be pretty much anything we want it to be, all it takes to fix this "problem" is for congress to close the "loophole".

To say companies shouldn't take advantage of existing tax laws is like saying all of us should have a residence in NY city and pay their high taxes as that would be the "right thing to do."

Public opinion will end the practice of off-shore incorporation, so fear not, our Federal treasury will continue to be fed. However, I wonder if a US corporation, say like ExxonMobil, does over 50% of their business in other countries, could we let them incorporate somewhere else? Should we make Sony incorporate in Delaware since the government buys their hardware?

Where does it end? Where are the Libertarians when we need them?
They can incorporate whereever they want. The amendment the republicans removed would have prevented companies that incorporated offshore from receiving government contracts. Why should they benefit from our tax dollars if they don't pay themselves?
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 07:26 AM
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Pepperell, MA, USA
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don't do it, Big Foot. It is pig wrestling. I am waiting for him to admit that Democrats are bought as well.
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 08:45 AM
God is good
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Banjul
Joined Jan 2001
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Mootsie,

I hope you're battened down for the winter . . . . it could be a long wait

VP
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 08:52 AM
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Melbourne, Victoria, Oz.
Joined Oct 2000
316 Posts
Dear Mr M.
They're all doing it, "Politician" is code for "I am a prostitute and will do anything for money". It really goes to show that no matter what "the big end of town" can and will always win, Look I know I'm a winging leftie scumbag, but if enough Corporations take advantage of this loophole, and who can blame them if its a free way to increase profits by large amounts. This will result in the federal government having to realign their tax base to take advantage the available funds left under their control. And guess whos tax rates thats going to affect. Good Government policy that, still when you vote 'em out of office there'll be some great Jobs in industry for them. Here in OZ we recently had a Federal Health Minister give a Doctors society a grant of some millions of dollars, retire, and then go to work for them as a consultant..... The Government put a stop to the grant, after a huge outcry mind you,and six weeks later the Doctors society sacked him!! You can't trust any of the mongrels.

Hugh
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 09:54 AM
Motors beat engines!
Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States
Joined Feb 2001
4,564 Posts
"Why should they benefit from our tax dollars if they don't pay themselves?"


Why should'nt they?


By your definition, the poorest people here in the US, who pay zero Federal tax, also should'nt recieve any federal benefits.

Jimbarstow, are you really saying the goverment should deny our most vunerable citizens help, or are you simply excercising a double standard?


Dean in Milwaukee
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 10:58 AM
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jbourke's Avatar
United States, OR, Corvallis
Joined Nov 1998
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimbarstow
They can incorporate whereever they want. The amendment the republicans removed would have prevented companies that incorporated offshore from receiving government contracts. Why should they benefit from our tax dollars if they don't pay themselves?
Because they offer the best service at the best price.

They are still paying taxes on the money they make within the US.

Jim
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 11:02 AM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimbarstow
Why should they benefit from our tax dollars if they don't pay themselves?
Immigrants come to the US illegally everyday and take advantage of our health care and educational system without paying a lick of Federal Incometax, or State Incometax.

logan5
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 11:07 AM
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logan5, et al,

jimbarstow's point is that these corporations aren't paying taxes. But the fact is that they are.

Why argue using an analogy?

Jim
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 11:29 AM
Motors beat engines!
Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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"logan5, et al,

jimbarstow's point is that these corporations aren't paying taxes. But the fact is that they are.

Why argue using an analogy?

Jim"


Just pointing out that even if his point were correct, it still makes no sense, or is at least hypocritical and discriminatory.

Basically not allowing him any slack with the facts.
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 11:31 AM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
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Arizona
Joined Oct 2001
276 Posts
I think Stanley Tools was going to incorporate offshore to shield its foreign profits from US income tax, but were scared off from all the press. Most foreign governments DO NOT tax foreign profits from their corporations, the US does in all its wisdom.

So the logic of some in Congress was:
1. We will not buy tools from you if take advantage of the tax laws.
2. We will instead buy tools from a Red Army company in China.
3. That way we don't have to "fix" the tax law.

Makes bureaucratic sense to me!
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 11:37 AM
Motley crewmember
Melbourne,Fl
Joined Sep 2002
393 Posts
Errr,ahhhhhhhh,ummmmmmmmmmm. Isn't everybody a hypocrite?
PETA people wear leather belts and shoes.
Environmentalists drive cars.
State and Local Governments invest in Big Oil, "offshore Companies", smokestack industries, etc to pay for the retirement funds for their personnel, ditto 401K etc,etc,etc. And God help the Fund Managers from the wrath of "us people" if they don't show a profit. Wanna' bet that the Enron employees knew well beforehand that the company played the game fast and loose? You mean to tell me you don't know these things about your own company?
Doesn't anyone ever look in a mirror? Do you?
I don't whip myself to death over my personal opportunism but I sure don't kid myself as to who the culprits are.
Anyone remember Pogo? Anyone remember what he said ?
http://www.nauticom.net/www/chuckm/whmte.htm

Vince Neil
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Old Dec 03, 2002, 11:46 AM
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Church Point, LA (70525)
Joined Aug 2002
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actually, PETA members and employees who are supportive of the organization wear pleather and other leather alternatives:

http://www.pangeaveg.com/cgi-bin/miv..._Code=03-belts


http://www.pangeaveg.com/Merchant2/m...=01s-mensdress


and for Christmas, be sure to pick up an UnTurkey from http://www.nowandzen.net/products.html
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