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Old Nov 23, 2015, 01:13 AM
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Learning Pattern

Hey guys! I just finished a season with my foamie trainer, and I want to start flying pattern next year. Maybe not competitively, but to improve my flying in general. I'm looking for a second plane. I currently fly a decathlon that is really a flat bottom wing.. it has ailerons and flaps and those are fun to play with. I land it safely 4/5 times, with the odd messy landing.
Should I grab one of the smaller pattern planes like the mini excellence or the Super Taiji from the worlds models. I'm also thinking of grabbing a 3d airplane a foamie or similar type. I'm looking at the f3a olympus, or the Bravado / arcus from HK.
I would like your input guys, thanks in advance!
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Old Nov 23, 2015, 01:56 PM
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pattern

Hi, The Super Tayji is a fantastic pattern plane. I have had mine for over three years now.




ray
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Old Nov 23, 2015, 04:05 PM
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Check out the 30 and 70 size pattern planes at F3AUnlimited.com. Their 2-meter brethren are all excellent. Assuming you are staying in sportsman, the FMSOlympus is a great plane on 5S. I've seen it kick 2 meter planes' butts flown by good pilots.
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Old Nov 23, 2015, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pvogel View Post
check out the 30 and 70 size pattern planes at f3aunlimited.com. Their 2-meter brethren are all excellent. Assuming you are staying in sportsman, the fmsolympus is a great plane on 5s. I've seen it kick 2 meter planes' butts flown by good pilots.
+1!
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Old Nov 24, 2015, 02:00 AM
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I really like the f3a olympus actually. But how would it fly/ handle in comparison to a 3D airplane? Would reducing the rates work the same way, essentially turning it into a sport plane? Would having higher rates for the sportsman pattern help?
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Old Nov 24, 2015, 03:31 AM
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LOWER rates for sportsman. WAY lower. You don't need more than about 10 degrees of throw on any surface except rudder.
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Old Nov 24, 2015, 09:29 AM
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I am also new to pattern maneuvers and while I will probably never compete I have been practicing the sportsman sequence. Way back when I had a small built up balsa Pattern plane called the Meridian and I really enjoyed how it flew till the motor mount ripped out of her one day after one to many snaps.

Fast forward to this past summer and I was looking for a new pattern type plane that I could fly on my 3S 2200 packs and did a bunch of reading. I ended up getting the Arcus and I am VERY happy with it. It flies like it is on rails, can handle some surprisingly strong breeze, is well thought out and equipped and really has no bad tendencies. While she is just fine on 3S she really wakes up with 4S, dare I say she may be excessively powered on 4S.....and I like horse power. I can whole heartily recommend the Arcus especially if you can get it on sale, I think I paid like $109 delivered for mine during a HK sale but even for $150 it is a good plane.

I was also looking for a smallish 3D plane a few weeks ago. I did not want to go the profile route as I wanted something that would carry some energy and as my fingers are a bit rusty after not flying 3D for a number of years I wanted something that not quite as fragile as a balsa plane. I ended up getting a Skywing 38" Edge after doing a lot of reading. The Edge is a foam/Balsa hybrid and I have to say it is a sweet plane as well. It can be flown in a school yard and I have the rates set up on a 3 position switch so I can do anything from pattern type flying to full on 3D (getting the fingers back slowly). The down side to the edge is that it seems happiest with 1300mah packs but they only get you around 4:30 flight time, Again it is well engineered and comes with decent hardware but I would suggest spending 30 minutes with some thin CA and going over all the motor box and battery tray joints.

Let us know what you decide on.
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Old Nov 24, 2015, 12:50 PM
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LOWER rates for sportsman. WAY lower. You don't need more than about 10 degrees of throw on any surface except rudder.
Fantastic advise here. An airplane set up for sportsman pattern should feel quite soft. To most people flying for a while it will feel odd and most guys initially will not like it. Regardless of what airplane you choose please spend the time to get the setup correct. Lots of guys miss that part. Don't assume your ARF has been built straight. Measure it out and make corrections if needed, then test fly and lock down the CG first then download a trimming chart and go through it step by step. This is time well spent. Getting hooked up with a local pattern pilot will help with this. Notice I said a pattern pilot, not the guy who is a good pilot but does not compete. Someone who competes has a better understanding of what the airplane requirements are. When it comes to pattern trimming there is no " good enough ".
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Old Nov 24, 2015, 03:50 PM
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Fantastic advise here. An airplane set up for sportsman pattern should feel quite soft. To most people flying for a while it will feel odd and most guys initially will not like it. Regardless of what airplane you choose please spend the time to get the setup correct. Lots of guys miss that part. Don't assume your ARF has been built straight. Measure it out and make corrections if needed, then test fly and lock down the CG first then download a trimming chart and go through it step by step. This is time well spent. Getting hooked up with a local pattern pilot will help with this. Notice I said a pattern pilot, not the guy who is a good pilot but does not compete. Someone who competes has a better understanding of what the airplane requirements are. When it comes to pattern trimming there is no " good enough ".
I have used the trimming chart for years on all my planes because it is just a good check list of how to get it set up correctly. I am getting there on the Arcus but I am thinking I have to pull out some right thrust.....just been lazy.

On the control throw thing it is funny. I have flown the Arcus and a small scaleish Pilatus PC-21 all summer both of which have pretty small control throws. Then I started flying the Edge with 3D throws and I go to fly the other two plane, the Arcus especially, and it feels so weird. I have taken a lot of the expo out of the Arcus so it feels a bit more direct but the first pack in the Arcus always feels weird now.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old Nov 24, 2015, 04:43 PM
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Jim, I completely understand. I once borrowed an IMAC airplane to attend a contest from someone who flew in the basic class. After trimming it for a week I went on to place 3rd in the unlimited class. After returning it back to the owner his exact words were " I didn't like your setup so I changed it back ". Different flying feels different. At first a good pattern setup will feel soft and mushy, you will not have enough control to correct big mistakes quickly. Before long those mistakes will get smaller and the corrections will be all but invisible. The goal is to fly the sequence, not fly the sequence and corrections. Getting the feel for a soft setup takes time.
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 06:53 PM
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Some folks are under the misconception that one type of model can do all types of flying. Well truth be told, they can......

That said; just because they can do it doesn't mean they do it well although I have seen Andrew Jesky fly a 2M Oxai Pattern plane like a 3D model, very FEW of us possess his skills. So the rest of us need different airplanes. For the OP; buy yourself a decent smaller size Pattern model and I'd suggest talking with Mike Mueller of F3A Unlimited for his suggestions and he has quite a number of choices.

You will also get the benefit of his support and advice if you want it. Sorry guys but I'm NOT buying anything from HK.

For 3D practice I'd get an EPP foamie in the 38* wingspan size area and practice with that as those things will pretty much bounce if you hit the ground unintentionally and with reduced deflections via a dual rate or Condition/Flight Mode (depending on your radio brand and capability), you can practice IMAC maneuvers as well as Pattern without endangering a more expensive model until your skill level improves.

JMHO..... YMMV
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 08:57 PM
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Over the past few years with the advent of bind and fly airplanes I have seen an explosion of foam airplanes at the field. Generally speaking, I think that this has been good for the hobby; however, I think that there is a downside to them as pilots transition to larger and heavier models.

Being so light, the foam airplanes fly differently from your more traditional balsa models; the inerta is just not there. In more than one case, I have seen pilots transition to larger planes and try to fly them as the planes they learned: the larger planes are flown too close without opening the pattern to go deeper to the right and left and then making turns which are too tight. I once saw a 20cc gas powered Yak snap during a tight turn followed by a spin. The snap caught the pilot completely by surprise and he basically froze. There wasn't much we could do to help him out and his new plane ended up a total loss.

If you are still learning, I would suggest transitioning to a larger balsa plane which does not break the bank. Even if it is not a pattern plane, each new plane always has something to teach you. I would also say that balsa flies better than foam (or at the very least ages more gracefully) and larger is better.

Good luck,

Teo

PS. I do have a 70 sized Fantasista from F3Aand it is a sweet little plane.
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Old Nov 28, 2015, 05:50 PM
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I's still looking at foam, the bravado, which is the monoplane version of the Arcus imo and maybe still thinking about the taiji, which is a balsa model. If i decide to get a bigger plane, with might be the sequence 1.20 as they dont make the smaller ones anymore. Even the Apollo from Tower looks really good
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Old Nov 28, 2015, 06:50 PM
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Take a look at the Extreme Flight site. They make a Vanquish in the 48" range. Also if you can find one get a 3dhs Vyper (46 or 48") or an Osiris. I have all of these planes currently and they fly the pattern sequence quite well.
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Old Nov 28, 2015, 07:01 PM
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Take a look at the Extreme Flight site. They make a Vanquish in the 48" range. Also if you can find one get a 3dhs Vyper (46 or 48") or an Osiris. I have all of these planes currently and they fly the pattern sequence quite well.
The Osiris fly's very well but it's been out of production for several years now with no plans, that I'm aware of, by 3DHS/Extreme Flight to produce it again.
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