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Old Jun 09, 2013, 08:29 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Mini-HowTo
iPower GBM4006-KIT, MT4108, MT4114 Half Parallel dLRK Rewinds

iPower GBM4006-KIT Half Parallel dLRK Rewind

I recently got a iPower GBM4006-KIT kit motor that is a product of iFlight RC. That kit is currently being sold by Got Heli? RC, a U.S. based dealer, and can be seen on this page:

http://gothelirc.com/shopdisplayprod...+Gimbal+Motors

I recently posted a mini-review of the kit and it's contents here:

I Power GBM4006-KIT Gimbal Motor Kit - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1908328

Of course, as a thoroughly committed man knitter, I could not ignore the presence of an bare stator on my workbench so I had to wind it.

A while back I was able to measure the raw Kv on the factory wound iPower GBM4006-150T gimbal motor. That motor, wound for use on a camera gimbal with a150 turn dLRK_Wye wind, had a Kv of 54.4 (I am using the decimal on the Kv because of the high turn count).

I used the info from that winding and Kv to set up a Turn Calculator 5 spreadsheet for this motor. That gives me the turn counts and resulting Kv's for using this motor for turning props. And TC5 offers the turn count data for LRK, dLRK, and Half Parallel dLRK winds and for both Delta and Wye terminations.

01 - A screen shot of the TC5 output for this motor is attached. I wanted to rewind this motor to have a 700 Kv and according to the TC5 calculations my best options for that were to use a 23 turn Half Parallel dLRK Wye wind for a 710 Kv (cell F30) or a 20 turn dLRK Delta wind for a 707 Kv (cell G27). There were some other options too but I was looking at a two layer wind around 20 turns or so as the best option for getting a good copper fill on the stator.

I have found the Half Parallel to be a good wind and it has produced better power on similar (larger O.D., lower height) stators than has the dLRK wind so I decided to use the 23 turn Half Parallel wind for a 710 Kv.

02 - When I did a test wind on one arm with 22 AWG wire I was able to get 26 turns on the arm in two full layers. That can be seen in the image. The 23 turn wind would remove the last three turns on that arm and relieve that congestion that would occur if I had tried to wind 26 turns on the arms on either side of that arm. The points where the adjacent arm turns for a 26 turn wind would not fit is marked in the image.

So it looked like the 23 turn wind would work out very well here.

03 - The stator mounts on the bearing tube and there is a flange that it rests on when it is fully seated. That flange extends out 0.5mm from the 14mm bearing tube. So when the stator is fully seated, the transit runs on the windings that go from one arm to the other must be far enough away from the hole in the stator that they do not get caught between the flange and the stator when it is seated. That would leave the stator in the wrong position and also result in the windings becoming pinched, scraped, and shorted out to the stator.

If you look at the previous image, you can see the wire going from the arm that is wound to a second arm where there is only one turn. That wire is passing over the area where the flange will seat and the winding cannot be there, the transit run must be 0.7mm or so away from the edge of the hole in the stator to allow the flange to seat against the stator.

04 - So we will to solve the transit run problem with a modification to the handle we put in the stator. The handle is essential to handling the stator as the turns go on. This one is a piece of 1/2" dowel with a few turns of heavy vinyl rigging tape wrapped around it to make it a snug sliding fit in the 14mm hole in the stator. After I fit the handle I cut another narrow strip of the tape and, with the stator in place, wind 4-5 turns of that to form a collar that is snug against the side of the stator where the transit run will be. That increases the diameter by 1.5mm or so and that will keep the transit run 0.75mm or so away from the hole and let the flange pass by it without damaging the transit runs. In this image the stator has been moved back away from the collar that was added.

05 - And this is the stator in place on the handle and up against the collar and ready for winding to start.

06 - Stator winding is easy and the best job is done by people that have more than two hands. I have found three hands to be the right number for me. In this photo the 3rd hand motor winding accessory is the piece of white wood with the wing nut on it. The 3rd hand gets clamped to the edge of the bench, the wire passes between two pieces of gasket material to apply a little drag to the wire, the drag is adjusted with the wing nut, and I have just enough tension on the wire that the turns go on snugly without stretching the wire. Without the 3rd hand I cannot get 14 turns on in the first layer, with it I can. And the wire is not damaged or stretched by the 3rd hand.

07 - This image is the Half Parallel dLRK wind I am going to use here. That image is one page from an 8 page *.tif image named 12N14P_Half_Parallel_dLRK.tif that shows how to do the wind step by step. Because *.tif images cannot be uploaded for viewing here, I have put the *.tif file in the 12N14P_Half_Parallel_dLRK.zip archive file that can be downloaded from the attachments to this post.

That archive also contains an *.exe file named 12N14P_Half_Parallel_dLRK.exe that is a stand alone slide show of the same 8 images and step by step instructions for this wind.

For even more help on doing this wind you can follow the detailed instructions in this thread:

hexTronik DT750 Motor Rewind for Multicopter - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...00&postcount=4

That link will take you to post #4 in that thread, click on the yellow link with the thread's name in the top right hand corner and you can enter the thread there and see the rest of the posts for doing the wind. Posts #4, #5, and #6 cover the complete wind and termination process.

08 - This is the top side of the completed wind on this motor ready to be terminated. The motor was given a temporary Wye bundle and 3.5mm bullet connectors and then tested with a DMM for continuity and shorts. Then it was run connected to an ESC and tested under power successfully.

A no load test was run to determine the raw Kv and the motor finished up with a 724 Kv against the predicted 710 we used as a target. That is about as close as it gets for targeting a Kv.

09 - The top view of the completed and ready to use motor is seen here. The finished weight as seen there was 90 grams.

10 - And here is the bottom view. Two of the four mounting screws are in place there and this photo was taken after a couple of minutes of testing.

We'll follow up with some testing in a second post...

Jack
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Old Jun 09, 2013, 08:40 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,000 Posts
GBM4006-KIT Motor - Prop Testing Results

GBM4006-KIT Motor - Prop Testing Results

The finished motor was tested on 3S and 4S batteries with a GemFan 11 x 4.7 prop and a Great Planes Powerflow 11 x 4.5 slow fly prop. Those are both typical props for use with this motor. The Great Planes prop is similar to the GemFan in shape and use. I consider the Great Planes prop to be stronger than the GemFan props and much, much stronger than similar sized GWS slow fly props or the HK copies of those. Unfortunately the Great Planes (GP) props are not offered for CW and CCW rotation, only CW.

Test results were as follows:

no load 6s = 8519 RPM 11.76V 1.09A = 724.4 Kv

3S GemFan 11x4.7 19s = 5993 RPM, 9.80V, 11.21A 110W temp stable at 69F, 73F 30s after shutdown (low voltage due to fading battery)

4S GemFan 11x4.7 27s = 7257 RPM, 15.27V, 13.58A, 207W temp 72F to 75F stable, 79F after shut down

3S Great Planes 11x4.5 SF 23s = 6132 RPM, 11.11V, 14.34A, 159W temp 69F to 73F, 76F resting

4S Great Planes 11x4.5 SF 35s = 6623 RPM, 15.11V, 14.25A, 215W temp 70F to 78F, 80F resting

The eLogger data is graphed in the the attached images.

As you can see from the testing, the motor is not even getting warm during 20 to 40 second full throttle runs with those props. So the use of larger props and/or maybe even higher battery voltages is not out of the question for this motor.

It looks like this is going to be a useful motor and a well matched set of these motors would make a good power system for a multicopter. And you would have a set of motors with Kv ratings that are matched up better than any set of motors you could buy off the shelf.

And, doggone it! A single strand wind it just pretty to look at!

Jack
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 03:18 AM
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Excellent windsmensship

Philippians 4:8 ESV

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 12:13 AM
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manuel v's Avatar
Mexico, BC, Mexicali
Joined Aug 2004
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Another Jack motor generously sent me,

A BGM4006 Kit.
Trying to emulate a DT750, I'm going to rewind 18 turns for 907 Kv., or 19 turns to 859 Kv. 2pDLRK Y.
rewind to 19 turns, would lead me to install a third layer of only one turn.
This motor can take 23 turns 20AWG wire, but to occupy a third layer, possibly end up making contact with the upper bell.
I'll have to check.
If so, then I'll put 18 turns and only two layers.

Although the kit was developed for gimbals control Jack tests did show that has potential for a multi copter,
I see no reason not to use it in a model airplane.
I have a big 40-inch foami requiring motor and 11x4.7 propeller.

Manuel V.
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 06:49 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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I think you will find that to be a very strong motor for it's size.

I never did get that motor warm with the props I had on hand at the time. I should test it again. And I did not weigh it either so I don't know how it stands against the 3W per gram rule. But I'll bet it is at least 4-5W per gram!

That motor has thicker magnets and wider gaps between the magnets, I think those combine to make it best for the Start/Wye termination.

If you add a groove to the bearing tube for a piano wire "key" you will not need any glue when putting the stator back on the tube. I cut the groove with an abrasive disc in a Dremel tool.

Jack
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Old Mar 21, 2014, 11:34 PM
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Mexico, BC, Mexicali
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With 18Turns, 2pDLRK Y

No load.
11,000 rpm, 12.09V, 1.20A, 909Kv.

I flight SF CF10x4.7

8500 rpm, 11.27V, 18.80A, 211.8W, 83%NLS. 1215g.
8300 rpm, 11.01V, 18A, 198Watts, 83%NLS. 1145g.

I Flight CF 11x4.7

8400 rpm, 11.6V, 24.7A, 286.5 watts, 79.7% NLS. 1493g
7950 rpm, 11.02V, 22.77A, 250.9Watts, 79.4%NLS. 1317g.

GWS 10x6.

8700rpm, 11.14V, 16.05A, 178.9 watts, 85.9NLS. 80.3% effy.
10,400 rpm, 14.06V, 23.5A, 330.4 Watts, 81.4%NLS, 76% Effy. 1550g.

Even touching the coils, the motor is almost cold.



Manuel V.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 07:45 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
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Looking good there, your turn calculator predicted a Kv of 907 and you only missed it by 2!

That motor was 83g in the 150 turn gimbal motor wind, it should be a little heavier now.

Jack
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 03:23 PM
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The problem I find with this kit is that it is aimed at very low power, so the prop adapter is not robust enough for power applications.
A version with 4mm shaft would be much better for applications where you can get the motor its full potential.

even Its a great motor kit.

Manuel V.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 03:37 PM
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manuel v's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
Looking good there, your turn calculator predicted a Kv of 907 and you only missed it by 2!

That motor was 83g in the 150 turn gimbal motor wind, it should be a little heavier now.

Jack
96.3 g. + 4g adapter. no X mount.

Manuel V.
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 08:58 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuel v View Post
The problem I find with this kit is that it is aimed at very low power, so the prop adapter is not robust enough for power applications.
A version with 4mm shaft would be much better for applications where you can get the motor its full potential.

even Its a great motor kit.

Manuel V.
The 3mm (or is it 3.175mm?) shaft and those four holes at 12mm x 12mm will let you use the flat hub style props on that. Like these:

http://www.funtobuyonline.com/rc-pro...55-4pairs.html

Did I send you the disc and screws for that mounting? The only prop of that type that I have is a 15 x 5, that might be a bit much for that motor...

I am going to look at my prop adapter collection, maybe I can find you a prop adapter with a 4mm or 5mm shaft that will mount on that motor.

Jack
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Old Mar 22, 2014, 09:34 PM
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Jack.

Thanks,

I have 2 disk prop adapter.

For GWS i use one std. collect adapter.

Manuel V.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 12:39 AM
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More pictures.

Manuel V.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 05:06 AM
Jack
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Joined May 2008
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Have you said the turn count and Kv you got on the 4108?

I changed the name of this thread, it is now the "iPower GBM4006-KIT, MT4108, MT4114 Half Parallel dLRK Rewinds" thread and we can just keep all the info in one place for now.

Jack
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 12:04 PM
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MT 4108

Them 18turns, 24AWG in half parallel is my objective.
Y make a test with 24 AWG and 23.5 AWG magnetic wire.

To end y wind with 23.5 AWG 18Turns Half Parallel Delta.
AaAabBbBCcCc in parallel with aAaABbBbcCcC.

Motor weight.
Motor only., short wires 118.6 g.
with propeller adapter 130.9.

Test.
No load.

8100 rpm, .87A, 11.73 V. raw Kv=690
9700 rpm, 1.07A, 14.10 V., raw Kv=687

I flight CF 11x4.7
6700 rpm, 12.57A, 10.9V. 137W, 89.5 %NLS
Vs Stock motor.
6550 rpm, 12.90A, 10.9V. 140.6W, 82.1 %NLS

8800 rpm, 21.5A, 15.20V, 326.8W, 84.3%NLS

Vs Stock motor.
8600 rpm. 21.53A, 15.20V, 327.7W, 77.25NLS.


with 4slipo, 30 sec at full throttle, and the motor is not warm.
this tells me that I can use larger propeller and above the 320 watts.

APCe 12x6
7000 rpm, 15.4A, 15.16V, 178.6W, 87.8%NLS, 90.2% Effy.
8600 rpm, 23.5A, 15.16V, 356.2W, 82.6%NLS, 87.4% effy.

APCe 10x7.
9000 rpm, 18.6A, 15.08V, 280.4W, 86.9%NLS, 81.4% effy.



http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2126516

Manuel V.
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