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Old Mar 10, 2013, 05:11 PM
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High Dauntless . Yes i've seen the video's and pics. of your boats and I'm really impressed .
I watched a couple of the video's last Sunday morning and in the afternoon I went to the hobby store to get a replacement part for my 1m thundertiger yacht and I came home with a Dauntless

Now I've started my build and I'm just looking into what all the options are . If the astro 25's were $150 cheaper they would already be on the way . I have a $10 discount in my tower account and I just noticed that O.S. Max are now making electric brushless motors .

A website in Britain has them on their web site as a marine motor without the heavy duty prop mount on the shaft . one size is meant to replace the .25 - .32 size gas motor .

http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/ac...at_Motors.html

Now I notice that these motors mount from the back so that might be a problem so I'll see what they say and report back . Scale rc boating is bigger in Britain then it is in N.A. so maybe they have a different take .

I've only ever built a Midwest Lobster boat before and I did a combo deal with tower and bought the midwest motor . It's a neat boat and runs well on the small pond at the end of my street .

I'm just looking into all the options for no other reason than to rule out brushless as being not a good fit or too costly . In the 70's the guys with the twin 40 sized gas motors probably laughed a the guys who were trying to get similar speeds with electric power .

I believe that there might be a case to be made for spending a couple of hundred dollars extra with a brushless setup if the motors are more effcient and if they last longer but i don't know . Longer run times and longer engine life would be two reasons in favour of brushless the boat if its operated at scale speeds might run cooler than the 700 bb's but I don't know . If some one like me goes down this path it might be a costly mistake or it could present a new way for people to approach large scale models in the future .

I remember now that on RC groups or rc universe that some one was retrofitting a 48" Mimai vice scarab boat from one gas motor to twin electric outboards and that the brushless motors had cooling jackets with built in pumps at the top of the motor . Something like that running off the motor shaft itself would really be boss , but I can't find the thread .

Atomic flux : You mentioned that you were looking at a bow thruster for your boat . Why not do a whole what if experment with your boat as in what if the rockafellers had rescued the boat 10 years ago and restored the interior to its orignal condition but the modernized the rest of the boat such as replacing the older style outboard motor boat with a zodiac and a radar dome like you see now instead of the older rotating one ?
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 07:40 PM
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I've been reading your post. Somebody from a scale boat club said the Dauntless is too big for brushless? They don't know what they're talking about!!

There are brushless motors now replacing 26cc gas engines.

Here's a 26cc gas rc truck (1/5 scale Losi) converted to brushless

BL5 Brushless Conversion from RCMadness (1 min 55 sec)
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by scaleboater44 View Post
Atomic flux : You mentioned that you were looking at a bow thruster for your boat . Why not do a whole what if experment with your boat as in what if the rockafellers had rescued the boat 10 years ago and restored the interior to its orignal condition but the modernized the rest of the boat such as replacing the older style outboard motor boat with a zodiac and a radar dome like you see now instead of the older rotating one ?
You mean like a custom built Huckins motor yacht.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 08:48 PM
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My Dauntless is a gift from a friend, because I did some work for him. It is not in running condition and needs a complete refurb. So, I do not have any video of it running.

But I have plenty of videos of brushed motor boats, because that is all I run. There were some extremely powerful brushed motors and today brushless is the new buzzword but just because a motor is brushless construction does not guarantee it is a good motor. There is plenty of junk brushless crap out there.

As for the argument about efficiency, yes a brushless is more efficient. Because it is not dragging a couple pieces of coal across an armature. Big deal. The difference in runt time of a model boat would be negligible. I have a model boat that uses a brushed motor and a 4200 NiMh battery and runs for four hours on a single charge. I get tired of running the boat before the battery discharges.

In a scale pleasure craft or workboat, a brushed motor is just as viable as it ever was.

Here are a couple of my boats, powered with brushed motors, just for reference:

A woodie on Hansen Dam Lake (6 min 25 sec)


Graupner B-28 Onboard (1 min 13 sec)
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dauntlessfan View Post
Do NOT leave a half eaten pastry on the fine leather seating of the Dauntless... just sayin'.
Great picture Dauntlessfan!

-Rich.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kmot View Post
My Dauntless is a gift from a friend, because I did some work for him. It is not in running condition and needs a complete refurb. So, I do not have any video of it running.

But I have plenty of videos of brushed motor boats, because that is all I run. There were some extremely powerful brushed motors and today brushless is the new buzzword but just because a motor is brushless construction does not guarantee it is a good motor. There is plenty of junk brushless crap out there.

As for the argument about efficiency, yes a brushless is more efficient. Because it is not dragging a couple pieces of coal across an armature. Big deal. The difference in runt time of a model boat would be negligible. I have a model boat that uses a brushed motor and a 4200 NiMh battery and runs for four hours on a single charge. I get tired of running the boat before the battery discharges.

In a scale pleasure craft or workboat, a brushed motor is just as viable as it ever was.

Here are a couple of my boats, powered with brushed motors, just for reference:
Thank you Kmot! I totally agree with you!!!

-Rich.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 09:16 PM
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Rich : I can just ask about your 4 cooling pumps ? Are they running off the lipo's or do they have a different battery ? Are they on all the time or have you found a way to just run them when the motors are running ?
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 09:20 PM
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Now it's time to get back on topic...Detailing the Dauntless

Below are some pictures of the custom fabric cover to the Dauntless's tender. Next I'll finish up the cradle.

-Rich.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by scaleboater44 View Post
Rich : I can just ask about your 4 cooling pumps ? Are they running off the lipo's or do they have a different battery ? Are they on all the time or have you found a way to just run them when the motors are running ?
I have 3 11.1 LIPOS running in my boat.

1) runs the port motor and speed control

2) runs Starboard motor and speed control

3) Runs a power distribution panel. This feeds all accessories including the pumps.

I have a 3 way switch that is servo operated.
Position 1 operates the intake and exhaust fans in the engineroom
Position 2 is off.
Position 3 operates all four waterpumps.

I hope this helps.

-Rich.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 09:35 PM
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Kmot I havn't ruled out the brushed motors only the dumas and the expensive astro 25's .

I got a suggestion back from offshore electrics and they said that the Leopard 4074 1400 kv motors have more torque as well as rpm's as the 700 bb motors he thought it would be twice as much so I could spin that bigger prop .

Right now they are going for $94 and they come with a nifty waterjacket . He recomended the Sea King 180 esc. because it has a forward and reverse , most brushless controllers are used for racing so they don't have a reverse .

I would also have to add cooling pumps since the Dauntless doesn't get fast enough to push the water through all that length of tubing .
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 09:39 PM
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Thanks Rich it does . Great pics. of the tender . These thing really are floating doll houses . Me I'll be glueing my Keel and sheers together tomorrow
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by scaleboater44 View Post

I would also have to add cooling pumps since the Dauntless doesn't get fast enough to push the water through all that length of tubing .
Scaleboater - With my current setup, my boat does get fast enough to push water through my motors' cooling coils and out the side without the help of any pump(s). Granted it's at about 75% throttle and above that you can see a stream of water coming out the exits. But it's there and I was plesantly suprised to see the volume of water being moved.

I did do a few things to lower friction on the cooling system. I used the largest diameter silicon tubing I could find that would still fit snug on the coils and brass pickups. I took out 2-3 of the coil winds. No sharp bends in the cooling lines. And made sure the pickups are both placed carefully behind the props so the prop fins are scooping water up into the pickups as they spin.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by scaleboater44 View Post
These thing really are floating doll houses .
Only if you build em' that way.

-R.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tollytime View Post
I've been reading your post. Somebody from a scale boat club said the Dauntless is too big for brushless? They don't know what they're talking about!!

There are brushless motors now replacing 26cc gas engines.

Here's a 26cc gas rc truck (1/5 scale Losi) converted to brushless
Tolly Enough..I've been patient with you and you still haven't proved anything at all!!

Do you know how many times I've seen boats destroy car motors and ESC's? And stubborn modelers that didn't listen to sound advise waste their money to spend it all over again because they didn't listen the first time?? ..RCMadness doesn't even make a marine motor!! All this shows is that brushless goes fast..What does this have to do with a scale boat? Nevermind..don't even answer that because it still doesn't matter..

Anywhoo...Build a Dauntless and show us your reliable brushless setup at work in that boat. We are interested in reading and seeing proven solutions at work in that boat.

Thanks.

-Rich.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dauntlessfan View Post
Scaleboater - With my current setup, my boat does get fast enough to push water through my motors' cooling coils and out the side without the help of any pump(s). Granted it's at about 75% throttle and above that you can see a stream of water coming out the exits. But it's there and I was plesantly suprised to see the volume of water being moved.

I did do a few things to lower friction on the cooling system. I used the largest diameter silicon tubing I could find that would still fit snug on the coils and brass pickups. I took out 2-3 of the coil winds. No sharp bends in the cooling lines. And made sure the pickups are both placed carefully behind the props so the prop fins are scooping water up into the pickups as they spin.
Guys...

Dauntlessfan brings up a good point. As he mentioned he had success using a traditional brass pickups on his boat.

I didn't use traditional pickups so that the bottom of the boat was show ready. So instead I used flush pickups seen in the first picture below. Because the boat wasn't fast enough it couldn't move water through the entire system so pumps were needed to do this. Also my cooling system is more than just for cooling it is also an attempt to recreate the massive exhaust system that was on the full sized boat. I'm sure most of you won't care to do what I have done so consider what Dauntlessfan did with his boat.

The second picture is a traditional pickup tube which may be similar to Dauntlessfans. If it is installed correctly it may work fine as a means for cooling the motors.

-Rich.
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