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Old Jul 21, 2007, 01:46 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
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Mini AVA-E in Seattle Thread Re-Start

Hi Guys,

Bob in Seattle here. Some time back, I ordered a Mini AVA from Kennedy Composits. It has a 100 " wing. My color choise was out of stock. I chose to wait for it to come in. The new shipment arrived, and there was ONE in my color choise, out of 6 Mini's. I bought it on the spot. It arrived here in perfect condition.

This purchase was a huge leap of faith for me. I had a lot of trouble trying to justify that much money for a plane. I've been in the hobby for 4 yrs. Up untill now, I had only spent 1/2 as much for any plane I had. I was hoping to see why it costs so much when it arrived.
I was very suprised at the quality and engineering expertise that I saw. It was a lot of subtle things that made a big difference to me. They used 3 airfiols for one thing. In the wing tip section, see photo, the rib spacing goes from 1 3/4" to 1 1/4" in the outter section. The front spar goes from a thick bar stock to a kevlar tube. There are radiused corner blocks for strength. Each rib is capped top and bottom with kevlar. I have never seen this level of sophistication before. I was beginning to feel better about spending the money.
The last 2 ribs on the wing tip are radiused out like a birds wing. See photo.
The joiner is also unique. I'm used to round or rectangle shaped joiners. This one is a curved I beam. The fit is perfect and snug. See photo.
Lastly, I noticed that the front spar shear web, is not a piece of balsa, with the grain going up. It's a series of balsa pieces glued together "butcher block" style and fitted into place. See photo.
The same type of workmanship goes into the rest of the plane as well.
After looking at this stuff for a few days, I now know WHY this plane is priced the way it is. I feel very good about my purchase now.
For you veterians in the hobby, this is old news, I'm sure. For a rookie in Seattle, this is exciting cool stuff. Here is a photo of the whole wing out in the yard. I hope you guys enjoyed this report.

Bob in Seattle
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Last edited by Bob Cook; Feb 02, 2008 at 05:55 PM.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 03:06 PM
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Congrats on the new bird purchase.

I have admired the AVA for a numbers of years now. I first saw it live at a Spring Fling contest here in Sac. about 3 years ago. Man that wing can take a hard launch for a builtup RES class poly-wing glider.

I have fought off the urge to buy one for the same reason you mention - $$$$. But I admit to having spent more money on other lesser cost planes in the past three years than the AVA would have cost. It just wasn't all spent at one time!

I will be interested in your "assembly experience" and your flying experiences with the 100". It just might work out at a couple of spots I fly locally at... I don't think the 127" would and buying the 127" AVA and driving to Davis to fly it would probably put this retiree in the poor house.

Good flying!

R/E
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 03:20 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
7,586 Posts
Hi R/E,

Yah, I went for the Mini because of flying room restrictions here too. There wont be much to building it. 3 servos and a motor. I'll do a thread when I start that process. Thanks for the read.

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 03:23 PM
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Bob - ooohh I am turnin greeeen - that is one pretty wing - I have been struggling with a new purchase for a while and I went with the new 2.5M Hyper ME from NEsail. I havent got it yet but I'll post some pics when I do - I am still considering a AvaE or a Graphite Dbox E so I will be tuning in on your experience with this Ava - keep us posted!
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 04:31 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
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Hi Asat,

You have me laughing here in rainy Seattle. I also considered the Hyper. But Sal says it's harder to fly than a poly wing plane. I like poly wings, because they fly themselves most of the time.
I'm struggling with motor choises at the moment. I'm not a competitor. I just want some adquate power. Meaning a climb out of 35 degrees or so. I'll keep you posted.

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 05:00 PM
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Bob,

When you get a chance could you measure the diameter of the nose.

I'm wondering if there is room for either a Himax 3510-1100 or a 3516-840 which are less than $75 outrunners. I have had very good luck with my smaller Himax motors and I sure the larger motor would be fine for sport flying.

R/E
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 05:25 PM
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Bob, I seem to remember in the Electric Ava Build thread started by Andy W a guy mentioned using a Hyperion outrunner saying something about 80% of the performance of the High dollar setups at 50% of the price - I'll go look and see which motor setup he used and then maybe you could go a size down from there and you would have the performance you are speaking of.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 05:46 PM
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Here it is...


Originally Posted by MikeBanyai
Guys, I have been running the numbers for the AVA-E in Motor Calc and it looks to me like you can get a 1500 foot/min at 90 degree climb out of a Hyperion 3019-10 on a 11/6 prop and 3 Lipo 2500 20C cells at 36amp. This would all come out in the 45oz range, prob 20 oz less then many of the setups discussed in this thread...This seems to me to be prety reasonable if you are going to use it as a sailplane and not a hotliner....I can't quite understand why folks are stuffing such heavy battery setups into this plane...please educate me...Mike
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 05:52 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
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Hi R/E,

Bob in Seattle here. The Mini AVA nose is huge, compaired to what I am used to. It slides off so you can change the battery. Here is a photo of the nose off the body section. It slides on to where it's laying next to the body. The end inside Dia is 1 5/16 inch. It's a LONG way down there to mount the motor !!!!. Here are the photos for you.

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 05:55 PM
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asat,bob..i think this was a hyperion Z3025-6. i can attest this is one powerful muther.i put one in my big bird 100" weyyyy! too mutch.i dropped back to a Z3025-8 motor...ken
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 05:59 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
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Hi Asat,

Bob in Seattle here. Thanks for finding that for me. Actually, I believe that Andy is one of the "Over Seers" of this web sight. That's why he has 33,000 posts or more. And.....he knows a lot of good stuff about planes !!!

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 06:11 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
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HI Guys,

Bob in Seattle here. OK so let's get right to it. At this monent, I am considering useing an AXI 2814/12 outrunner, with a Phonix 45 speed control. The plane weighs 41 oz fully loaded, with that motor and a NiMh 4/5 A, 8 cell pack. The question is which size NiMh cell should I use ? 4/5 A, or 4/5 SC, or S/C ? Each pack gets heavier, but has more capasity. I'm useing the pack for CG control and ballest. If the plane is a super floater, as I have heard, it wont mind a little battery weight, but how much is enough ?? I'm open to all suggestions except Li-Po.
Thanks

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 06:14 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
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Hi Ken,

Thanks for that info. I'm not good with those outrunner motor numbers. I'm not sure what they really mean. I'm just useing the guide in the cataloge baised on the wt and type of plane I have. I'm just hoping I'm close. Does anyone really know what those first 4 numbers mean ??

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 22, 2007, 01:27 AM
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Bob in Seattle - I got this off the Hobby Lobby website:

Understanding AXI OUTRUNNERS
Each AXI motor has a 6 digit numbering system. For example: 2208/34. The first two numbers (22) represent the diameter of the stator (the fixed part in the middle of the motor) in millimeters. The second two numbers (08) represent the length of magnets (attached to the rotating case) in millimeters. The third set of two numbers (34) represents the number of wire winds, also called turns.

When comparing the motors within any series (2208, 2212, etc.) there are several characteristics that you will notice. Motors with higher winds spin slower for every volt of electricity applied, they have a lower Kv (RPM/V). They spin a larger propeller at slower speeds and at a lower current than low turn motors. Motors with lower winds spin faster for every volt of electricity applied, they have a higher Kv (RPM/V). They spin a smaller propeller at higher speeds and at a higher current than high turn motors.

To determine the motor for your model: analyze the character of your airplane, is it sleek and fast, or a slower plane with a lot of drag? For the high speed airplane a low turn motor that spins a small prop fast would be the right choice. For a Trainer or Biplane with a lot more drag, a high turn motor that can spin a much larger prop and produce a lot of thrust at low speed is what you want.

I think based on that criteria you have made a good selection - that motor only weighs 4.6 oz. so your battery pack could be larger - I'd use the 4/5 SC or the S/C to get more climbs to altitude, but then I'm not real good at finding those boomer thermals

Lou in Pleasant View
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Old Jul 22, 2007, 05:57 AM
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Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
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Looks good, Bob - they are a work of art, for sure.

Mine is my favorite model so far, just a dream to fly. My AVA build thread, which has dozens of posts from others as well, is here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442917
(I know Bob's seen it, but many here may not have)..

There's another good AVA thread in the Sailplane forum as well: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173093

..a
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