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Old Dec 30, 2012, 05:15 AM
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Well, you might be right. 1000m is maybe a bit too much.
I am sure, that i have been at 800m before with my old F3B. (telemetry from the towing plane) It was a Supersonic from Aerosport Becker.

really hard to see the plane at this altitude. thats right!

However i did a dive out of this altitude. the speed was not as high as I expected it to be after this dive. So the airframe limits the final speed.

i have seen planes, that seemed to be built supersolid and stiff blowing up in turbulent air on the slope. This is no fun at all!!

Actually I just want to be sure, that this plane wont do this...


Will have to talk to Samba about the possibilities.

The plan is to buy a kinetic2m or SRTL towards the end of 2013 anyway...So that will be the plane for those big days...

Cyril
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 10:36 AM
F3B and F3K
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United States, TX, Dallas
Joined Mar 2009
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Hi Cyril

For alpine soaring in the swiss alps (Hahnenmoos and such) were you can easily get silly altitudes and dive speeds, I would not take a F3B plane. I would be too worried that some structures (like V-tail with small control horns) would start to flutter.

I had a Supersonic too and for todays standards, it is rather slow (although fast enough to win the F3B worlds in Boehlen's hands). Bottom line is that you might have been able to dive from great altitude in flatland on a calm day, owing to the slower terminal velocity and less turbulence than in alpine surroundings.

I used to dive my beefy Masterpiece from stupid altitudes on alpine soaring trips, and even though that plane was built like a tank for an F3B plane (2.8kg empty), it started flexing and bending when crossing shear layers and such. No flutter, but it could look a bit scary.

Best,
Reto
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 10:42 AM
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I wonder how the air density of higher altitudes above sea level effects flutter.
I know that when I flew at Mammoth, the planes went very fast easily, and I had to turn down the elevator to about 2/3 to avoid flicking....

R,
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:08 PM
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Hi Reto,

thank you for your answer. So have you been to hahnenmoos already? You should try Monte Lema next time you are here....Crazy mountain. lots of flying sites for all kind of weather conditions and daytimes...

It really is easy to get up veryvery high in no time at places like this.

maybe you are right, that an f3B plane is not the right choice for that kind of dives...
However in my opinion, they are the best choice for everyday flying. Best all-rounders.

I made up my mind. Will get the precision F3F double carbon as an allrounder.

and I have just ordered a K2m for the big days and silly speeds.

bottom line: my wife will kill me for sure....


I think the last couple of posts made a really interesting discussion. Thanks everybody for sharing their opinions.

@Target: thats an interesting question. For sure, planes get higher speeds at lower air density. And the higher the speed, the bigger the chance of flutter...Or does the air density again reduce the risk? Any aerodynamic expert around to answer this question?


cheers,

cyril
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:08 PM
Challenge is rewarding
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800-1000 meters is SUPER high. I would be concerned with all fast F3b airframes with ballast at that height. You will definitely approach/hit terminal in a 2000 foot dive. In my experience it is tough to break 160-170 MPH on the front side in big air and heavy ballast. 180 MPH DSing is really pushing the limits on an F3b plane. If they are built for that, they are too heavy for high performance F3b.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 09:49 PM
F3B and F3K
RetoF3X's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibber View Post
So have you been to hahnenmoos already? You should try Monte Lema next time you are here....Crazy mountain. lots of flying sites for all kind of weather conditions and daytimes...
Offtopic:

hint: Reto is a typical swiss name

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1154664

A Fraulein Rottenmeier would be a good plane for your tasks: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...80&postcount=1

I prefered Grosse Sheidegg, crazy lift and magnificient scenery. Monte Lema and Hahnenmoos are nice too, but quite crowded.

Ontopic:

Let us know if you get a bullet proof version from Samba.

Reto
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 10:35 PM
4 wheels move a body; 2 a soul
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I agree with Dave. That kind of flying I would use something else. Do they still make those DS Wizards? Maybe something like that would work.
Walter
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 12:33 AM
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Reto,

offtopic:
I dont think a Fräulein Rottenmeier is commercially available. is it Raphael Jäger who builds these?

@walter: the wizard DSX is still available. Yes. But I just ordered another DS plane yesterday...



ontopic:
Of course, I will let you know what Samba tells me! Unfortunately I willl have to wait until the 7th of January, as they are on holidays.


After this discussion i realized, that its not possible to have THE ultimate plane, that can do everything. Either it is an allround ship for everyday flying - and thats gonna be the precision for me. Or a rocksolid, but heavy machine for crazy speeds. I need both! And thats what I ordered now. (see my last post)

thank you very much for opening my eyes.

Cyril
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:49 AM
F3B
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Warwickshire, England
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the extasty flies nicely (thermals especially well). There is a DS version:
http://www.jitom.com/pages/products/....html#ds-model
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibber View Post

ontopic:
Of course, I will let you know what Samba tells me! Unfortunately I willl have to wait until the 7th of January, as they are on holidays.


After this discussion i realized, that its not possible to have THE ultimate plane, that can do everything. Either it is an allround ship for everyday flying - and thats gonna be the precision for me. Or a rocksolid, but heavy machine for crazy speeds. I need both! And thats what I ordered now. (see my last post)

thank you very much for opening my eyes.

Cyril
Cyril
Samba is quite flexible for custom work
Flying Buddy Sam ( aka Pilebuck) owns some special Samba pc's:
Brio extreme in 4 x c
empty it's 3.5kg, loaded with tungsten 7kg ( 250oz ), however weakest link is always the tail, will not be much different with the Precision.

Cheers
Thomas

PS.: Made the same conclusion about ultimate glider some years ago, but I don't think there is one perfect Allround model either. That why you end up with a Hangar
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 11:47 AM
Detail Freak
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The Precision that Warren has I weighed the tails on:
29g each!
That is SUPER light for a production plane, so Thomas makes a good point.
I'm sure Samba would have the good sense to make the tails heavier if they made a stronger version, but they can only make them so strong....

R,
Target
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 05:06 PM
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Hi guys,

I will have to wait for my pike until January 2014.

I have not yet talked to Samba about other layup possibilities...I obviously still have some time to do this...First of all I wanted to make sure, that I am on the list.

one thing we were discussing in the last few posts here is, that if it is built stronger, then it will loose a bit of its allround capabilities...due to the fact, that it will be heavier. And thats a fact to remember for sure....

I know, thats maybe a silly question:

Anyone out there willing to sell his pike? I would take it straight away. PM me if there is anybody - pleeeaaassseee!! I need something to fly this season. (would also be interested in a ceres-lift or freestyler3/4)


cheers,

Cyril
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 06:18 PM
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take Stinger VV........will be sooner..
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 08:16 PM
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Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Oct 2003
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Stinger wait list approx 9 months, was on it but dropped my place a couple of months back.
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Old Jan 08, 2013, 01:23 AM
Hmmm Nice!
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hi cyril PM sent
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