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Old Feb 04, 2013, 08:48 PM
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How education and so on has changed over the years.

As best I recall, all my education, through the PhD. was focused on teaching the individual. All the courses I took were taught by a single instructor. Back around 1858-59 when I taught in high school, I invited the band director in when we got to sound in my physics class. He presented the physics of music very well, and I thought it gave a dimension to the understanding the subject much better than I could do. My principle criticized me for bringing another teacher into my class.

When I became a professor, I was basically on my own, developing my classes and getting my research program going. So my history of working alone served me well.

I got into team teaching ichthyology with a colleague from a nearby university. Proper team teaching means all team members are there every time. Otherwise, it works poorly.

The National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 specified an interdisciplinary approach to problem solving. We started a group doing environmental consulting starting in 1970, and carrying on for a number of years. Interdisciplinary teams were more or less invented in the manufacturing world in the 1930s, and included people from design, manufacturing, and sales. I have, somewhere, notes in Spanish and English for two hour lectures on the subject.

When we translated our consulting experiences into a graduate level interdisciplinary course in environmental impact assessment. We team taught, brought in outside experts, and the students did group projects for their grades.

I observed, during the '80s and '90s, that interdisciplinary team teaching, group learning, and team problem solving, became more and more common. The general idea, I think, is that we live in a complex world, and it takes teamwork, among disciplines, to deal with it. I think this idea has worked its way all the way to kindergarten. Students today are much more oriented to group problem solving, as opposed to individual problem solving as I was raised.

I imagine those of you noticably younger than me have had exposure the kind of education I describe. I think, for sure, your kids will have a dose. Fact is, when President Obama talks about how, together, we can solve problems and make a better life, that sounds reasonable to a lot of educated folks.

One thing I have also noticed. If you pick up a scientific journal from the 1950s and compare it to the same journal today, you will see many single author papers in the 1950 journal, and almost none in the recent journal.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:00 PM
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It's all about discouraging individual thought and action.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:01 PM
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I imagine those of you noticably younger than me have had exposure the kind of education I describe. I think, for sure, your kids will have a dose. Fact is, when President Obama talks about how, together, we can solve problems and make a better life, that sounds reasonable to a lot of educated folks.

Jim, respectfully, it all sounds quite collectivism to me. What’s changed is funding sources and tenure… not sure the quality is there when we seem to have huge shortages of basic science in this country, and those degrees are mostly coveted by foreign students.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:07 PM
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Your brought up a good question and made some interesting and thought provoking comments.

Good students make good teachers. With that said, you don't have to be a genius to be a good teacher, but you must be smarter than those you are teaching.

Critical thinking seems to be a lost art and most of education is based on the concept that if the curriculum is nailed down tight enough with very precise methods of presentations in a defined order, any idiot can teach and that is a major mistake.

The other major mistake is to begin to think that an elementary teacher can successfully teach 5 distinct levels of children at the same time especially when one of those levels is mostly behavior disordered. When, as a general rule, a teacher is teaching 5 levels, each level only gets 20 percent of what they should.

Beginning somewhere in the 60s, education resorted to firing a shotgun and hoping it hit as many as possible. Teaching a test might keep a teacher in good graces by the scores, but it doesn't help the child learn the interrelationships and patterns between disciplines.

Lastly when a child reads at below the third grave level and can only score 60 percent on a math test, the likelihood of them being successful in the academic arena are slim and odds are good they will be a burden on society for the rest of their lives.

In your arena, the publish or perish syndrome has forced people to group publish and reference each others' works' so they build prestige. That is BS.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:11 PM
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Back around 1858-59 when I taught in high school
Wow! Let me consult with my math group to figure out how old you are.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:16 PM
Watts is life...
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Wow! Let me consult with my math group to figure out how old you are.
We all saw it BTW... just didn't have the heart to question his educational degrees
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:20 PM
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In your arena, the publish or perish syndrome has forced people to group publish and reference each others' works' so they build prestige. That is BS.
Agree, there are so many pages of references in the back of books now it seems hardly any of it is original.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:23 PM
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We all saw it BTW... just didn't have the heart to question his educational degrees
I didn't mean it in a mean spirited way. Just being a smarty pants, and now I'll go to the back of the class.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 03:49 AM
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I'd say that knowledge is increasing so much, because we are teaming up.
We are standing on the shoulders of each other... and more is getting done.
We're not reinventing the wheel as much these days.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 06:50 AM
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What has bothered me during my years as a parent, of a senior in high school now, is the teaching to the test crap. Also, grouping students of different levels of initiative, to do projects, etc. I csant tell you how many times my daughter has done ALL the work, and I bought ALL the materials, for EVERYONE in the group to get an "A", utterly ridiculous in my book!!!! Another thing is the textbooks. I rarely have seen homework come home, when like when I was in school, the teacher had us do the questions at the end of a particular chapter. My thoughts are, why are we as taxpayers,paying for these books, when they arent being used?
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 08:42 AM
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What has bothered me during my years as a parent, of a senior in high school now, is the teaching to the test crap. Also, grouping students of different levels of initiative, to do projects, etc. I csant tell you how many times my daughter has done ALL the work, and I bought ALL the materials, for EVERYONE in the group to get an "A", utterly ridiculous in my book!!!! Another thing is the textbooks. I rarely have seen homework come home, when like when I was in school, the teacher had us do the questions at the end of a particular chapter. My thoughts are, why are we as taxpayers,paying for these books, when they arent being used?
Not to mention how much they cost, and that they're usually obsolete soon after publishing.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:09 AM
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Good for you, there are times when the arts use physics and vise versa. Just as you can teach your students through an artist's application, I would be willing to bet that some art students would learn something from the science behind the art.

I think the art of Cooking has been the most adaptable to scientific study and application of it's theories.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 11:06 AM
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Jordi Munoz of 3D Robotics is an example of how it's possible to learn on your own, without meeting some academic standard first. The internet facilitates that.

http://www.diydrones.com/profiles/bl...ofile-of-jordi
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 04:51 PM
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I had my original date as 1058-59 and tried to get it right. I added some verisimilitude, but not a whole lot.

I have discussed the kind of problem Leather Helmet's daughter has faced many times over the years. I've heard the story from students, and from people out in the world of work. If you are the kind of person who is project manager, project officer, section chief, team leader, etc, you are forced to develop management skills.

Management is the art of leading people to want to do good things. The members of your team are resources, and you have to figure out how to get the good out of each individual. It is, in fact, often easier to do it all yourself. I don't know if management skills are actually taught, or only learned on the job. Anyway, it is better to learn management skills earlier than later.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 06:17 PM
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OMG ur like rly old G2G
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