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Old Jan 09, 2011, 07:30 AM
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Woodstock, VT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceco View Post
I'm tying to develop a helicopter setup for the T-Rex 450. I'd like to use FSOne to do this and get a leg up on the setup for the real model. I need the interface to FSOne to accept raw input from my Tx and do NO mixing, flight modes, dual rates, expos, travel volumes, endpoints etc. etc. in it's software. I want to program all that information in my Tx and have FSOne just fly the heli with what the output of my Tx is commanding.

I've attempted to do this by customizing a Tx and eliminating all the "soft" mixes, flight modes, etc. but have not been entirely successful.

Does anyone know how I might accomplish this?

Thanks, diceco
diceco;
I'm not sure if what you are trying to achieve is actually possible. Set up for a real heli will be nothing like a set up in FSOnes' TRex450. I think the main reasons for this have to do with the programing of the heli itself and if the helicopter can perform "as the real thing" without the various inputs designed into the transmitter programming. I have tried to do as you outlined above and was able to control the heli with only transmitter inputs, however it flew poorly and wasn't an example of a "real setup".
Okay, 'nough with the negative stuff.
Have you found these mods that I posted some time ago?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=23
Some of the mods are heli specific and some transmitter. If you have already synthesized these mods already and are still having problems, post your specific changes and I'll hunt for what you have missed. I love a good challenge.
Scott
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 07:45 AM
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Woodstock, VT
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diceco,
A few more things on the set up of a real heli; Is your goal to learn how to set up the transmitter, throws, expo, etc... or to learn the mechanical set up of the heli itself?

I ask because FSOne masks the mechanical adjustments and offers so many other possible tweaks that are not available in the real helicopter. This has the advantages and disadvantages of course. Advantages are that you can totally change the flying characteristics (so it doesn't fly like a TRex 450) and disadvantages are that there is no correlation between the various adjustments and tweeks to the real TRex450.

Learning the transmitter set up for a real TRex450 follows the mechanical set up of the helicopter. I'm having trouble coming up with being able to describe the steps or reasons adequately in this post, but I will attempt it another time if you'd like further explanation.
Scott
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Old Jan 09, 2011, 08:25 PM
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[offtopic]

Diceco,
Finless Bob's videos for trex 450 will teach you 450 heli setup (for heli/servos and TX). They are excellent videos and should make setting up very easy. I have watched the 450SE ones (they got me through build and setup of my 450). He uses Futaba 7C in the SE videos and I think Spektrum in the PRO videos. They are in Finless Bob's tech room on the Helifreak forum.

With the help of those videos you won't need to practice setting up on a virtual heli.

[/offtopic]
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 11:12 AM
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United States, ME, Stonington
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T-Rex 450 on FSOne

My goal is to use FSO to develop the throttle and pitch curves, both normal and stunt modes, for the T-Rex 450 and also get the D/R's and expo's the way I like them before committing the real model to flight. I realize that the mechanical set up will play a part in this process depending on the mechanical gains of the 120 deg CCPM linkages on the heli. I don't think I'll have a problem with the mechanical setup as I've done several before and they've worked well.

As far as the possibility that FSO is capable of accurate modeling with raw channel inputs perhaps Micheal Selig could comment.

The radio I'll use to fly the T-Rex 450, a custom made Microstar 2000,

http://www.mstar2k.com/index.php?opt...d=34&Itemid=11

has 10 point throttle and pitch curves and are a bit more complicated to set than the usual 5 point settings in most Tx's. It would save me a bunch of time at the field if I could do the programming work on my computer using FSO at home before heading to the field with my new bird. To do this I need FSO to use all the individual channel control inputs from my Tx (except gyro gain) and hope FSO's simulation of the T-Rex's dynamics is close to the real model.

Sctholson: I remember your post about modifying the T'Rex from a while ago. At that time I was flying an Eflite Blade 400 and was not interested. Is the T-Rex 450 sim model in FSOV2 identical to the one in FSOV1? Are your tweeks to the T-Rex still relevant in FSOV2?

BTW. I've read several times that FSO is not a very accurate heli sim. I get the idea, however, that there might be some perpetuation of only a few peoples opinion. I'm not a 3D heli flier but from the limited experience in my flight regime the sim compares well with the model. If any of you that ARE accomplished heli fliers and are familiar with FSOne would like to detail their experience on the subject it would be interesting to hear.

diceco
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Old Jan 10, 2011, 05:54 PM
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United States, PA, Pittsburgh
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as an owner of the previous version of FSOne my only request for buying the V2 is more planes. i mean i love the physics and the physics of my sim but after a month flying the models included in the sim it gets very boring.
Lets faced the reason of why the other competitor (real....th) got so famous its not for the awesome physics NO. it got famous is because it gives you LOTSSSS of planes and lets you play online.
So pls keep the quality of the sim but give me lotssssssssss of planes and online games.

just my 2 cents
jaas
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 10:49 AM
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United States, FL, Ocala
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I've got FSOne V1.1 & have been fighting it trying to get the T-Rex 450 SE to fly like my real 450 heli without much luck. I'd like to hear from them if they did any work on the heli part of the new version before I commit to spending all that money on another version.

I tried Phoenix briefly a couple of weeks ago (Blade sR) & found it easy to fly & it felt almost like the real thing.

Chuck
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 10:52 AM
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Woodstock, VT
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Chuck,
Had you tried any of the mods I posted re the 450?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=23

Those should help bring the 450 into the realm of reality, post back if they don't work and I'll try to help you tweak the portions that you don't like. I am to please!
Scott
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 10:55 AM
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Hi All,

I'm curious from those of you that know more about these sims than I do. I have FSOne V1 and use Scott's T-rex fix (good fix BTW). I fly a B400 and am still in the learning stages. I think the pucker factor is killing me. I hear a lot about how wonderful the Phoenix sim is and how bad the real flight is. But really I'm not familiar with the new V2 or Phoenix. I did notice earlier in the thread that FSOne concentrates more on fixed wing, which I don't fly any more. So my question is, would it be better to get V2 or Phoenix or (God forbid) RF for heli sim? I'm looking for the most realistic heli physics so I can be better prepared when I take my real heli out of the case.

Thanks.
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 12:12 PM
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United States, IL, Champaign
Joined Sep 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceco View Post
My goal is to use FSO to develop the throttle and pitch curves, both normal and stunt modes, for the T-Rex 450 and also get the D/R's and expo's the way I like them before committing the real model to flight. I realize that the mechanical set up will play a part in this process depending on the mechanical gains of the 120 deg CCPM linkages on the heli. I don't think I'll have a problem with the mechanical setup as I've done several before and they've worked well.

As far as the possibility that FSO is capable of accurate modeling with raw channel inputs perhaps Micheal Selig could comment.

<snip>

BTW. I've read several times that FSO is not a very accurate heli sim. I get the idea, however, that there might be some perpetuation of only a few peoples opinion. I'm not a 3D heli flier but from the limited experience in my flight regime the sim compares well with the model. If any of you that ARE accomplished heli fliers and are familiar with FSOne would like to detail their experience on the subject it would be interesting to hear.

diceco
We had the 'raw' Tx's in FS One v1, but when we swapped to the new Tx method, we forgot to include them! We're going to put those into v2 w/ the next update.

Helis -- It's clear that we don't toot our horn about heli physics. I think the heli physics are very good, but like anything (any sim for that matter) things can always be improved. With helis, I think there is a strong preference to have them fly 'on the rails' in flight simulators. Real helis don't fly like that. We don't have them 'on the rails' plain and simple.
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 12:17 PM
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United States, IL, Champaign
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Rebate

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenrev View Post
If I own both FSOne V1 and Phoenix can I claim both rebates?
Just one. The rebate form is on FSOne.com if you want to read it.
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 01:49 PM
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United Kingdom, Stoke-on-Trent
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Quote:
So pls keep the quality of the sim but give me lotssssssssss of planes and online games.
I total agree with this Quote also where does the new AeroFly5 fit in to all of this ?
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 04:15 PM
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I have to say scale the Brio to match the 65" Vyper and you got a winner ! Scoot the CG back a bit and scale the power to about 1.50 and you got an awesome plane!
I wish we had a better way to fit props and motor combos . Like say I want to fly a 18x10 at around 1500 or maybe even 2000 watts .
I'm crashing in the servo edit though , I would like to bump the elevator throw up a bit .

Mike
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 04:32 PM
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United States, IL, Champaign
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Brio Tweaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinghigh View Post
I have to say scale the Brio to match the 65" Vyper and you got a winner ! Scoot the CG back a bit and scale the power to about 1.50 and you got an awesome plane!
I wish we had a better way to fit props and motor combos . Like say I want to fly a 18x10 at around 1500 or maybe even 2000 watts .
I'm crashing in the servo edit though , I would like to bump the elevator throw up a bit .

Mike
Easiest way to change the elevator throw is to edit the airplane. Click on Edit. Click on Aerodynamics. Look for the section on Elev (second group). The throws are given in that section and you can change them. Note, however, that there are some limits on the throws (depending on the airplane). The third group shows the limits. So I'm not sure about the Brio, but if the throws are already maxed out at 50 deg, then it's reached the limit. Ok, I just looked. Brio max elevator is +-50 deg, but it's set to +-43.7 deg (like real plane). So you've got some room there. To change the power, click on the Motor/Engine button. Change the power by a factor. The propellers and motors are added to the library w/ each new airplane, so we will be adding more w/ more planes. With a bigger airplane, you're going to want to reduce the drag a little bit. Experiment w/ the CDo value on the Aerodynamics section to lower the drag. When you click on a parameter, it will give the description. Also, w/ a bigger airplane, the aerodynamics of the propwash are more efficient, so you should also increase (maybe 5%) the propwash parameters. PropwashSpeedSlow and Fast are the ones to change. They are global effects and change the propwash on the wings, fuselage, and tail surfaces. I've never tried changing throws from the servo sides -- not easiest way. When you change it on the aero side per above, it's like changing the control horns on the surfaces. I think many of the aerobatic airplanes in the sim could benefit by moving the cg back a few percent. But a lot of beginners can not fly them w/ cg far back!!!
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 04:46 PM
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Thanks for the info Michael , I guess its been a while since I messed with any of the edit options . 50 degrees sounds good to me !
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Old Jan 11, 2011, 05:30 PM
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United States, FL, Ocala
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Helis

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSelig View Post
Helis -- It's clear that we don't toot our horn about heli physics. I think the heli physics are very good, but like anything (any sim for that matter) things can always be improved. With helis, I think there is a strong preference to have them fly 'on the rails' in flight simulators. Real helis don't fly like that. We don't have them 'on the rails' plain and simple.
I'm not sure what that means "on rails". I have a "REAL" T-Rex SE V2 clone that I can hover pretty well in 3 orientations & even scoot it around a bit. However, I can barely hover it in FSOne V1.1. If that's on rails I'd like to remove them!

Scott - yes, sir I tried all those changes & it was still pretty uncontrollable. I have since learned a lot about setting up expo & travel & have been messing with those. It's better but still not EVEN close to the real thing.

Chuck
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