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Old May 12, 2011, 02:54 PM
I think I forgot how to fly RC
cryhavoc38's Avatar
United States, WA, Woodinville
Joined Mar 2007
8,063 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlopGun View Post
I think I'm with egaus there, what I've noticed is EF and 3DHS are motor independent with their setups.

I agree with Jolene. The enemy is heat, as long as you are not too hot, who cares about the math. I like to read the threads and just choose what the experienced 3D guys are using.

On the infinite motors I think the brand name works as it seems they are infinitely delayed........

And guys, I was at Walgreens today and saw where they have a big sale, graph paper, protractors and mechanical pencils. Stock up!
any pocket protectors and black rimmed glasses?
gotta have those!

I need a leather case for my hp calc so I can wear it on my side.


Quote:
Originally Posted by egaus View Post
http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/65-Vyper--Red_p_15262.html
See that 3DHS provides an alternate configuration for this plane: Scorpion 4025-12 on 8S under components. Not to nit-pick, but ...

Now I'll be getting back to my Kool-Aid, mm... tasty.
e
I have absolutely ZERO issues with the kool aid manufacturer.
In fact, their kool aid is pretty damn tasty and their support is top notch.

I just hate the idea of paying $800 plus for a 50cc, versus approx $500 for one locally
AND I feel we should all be supporting, at least with one purchase, our local vendors.
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Last edited by cryhavoc38; May 12, 2011 at 03:03 PM.
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:02 PM
ex-noob
Lardog's Avatar
Sammamish, WA, USA
Joined Jan 2010
2,424 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by egaus View Post
http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/65-Vyper--Red_p_15262.html

See that 3DHS provides an alternate configuration for this plane: Scorpion 4025-12 on 8S under components. Not to nit-pick, but ...

Now I'll be getting back to my Kool-Aid, mm... tasty.

e
This is the kind of recommendation that is confusing to me. 3DHS says the Hacker motor (378Kv) on 6s is recommended but that this Scorpion motor (440Kv) on 8s is appropriate to use as well. They also also specify either a 17x10 or 18x8 prop. However, Scorpion prop data shows that this motor pulls 87A with a 17x10 at 21V, which would be running it at 6s. With 8s, I can only imagine what the amp would be. If you go by these #s, I'd expect 8s would fry that sucker! Is 8s just a typo?
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:07 PM
Training to be a cage fighter.
bicyclechris's Avatar
Woodinville, WA
Joined Apr 2010
499 Posts
Hmmm... a 440kv motor on 8s on larger 3D plane is probably a typo.
The general consensus on the 71" Slick thread is that 310-320kv is preferred for 8s, and
that 380kv is preferred on 6s.
I'm sure that a 440kv motor on 8s would work fine on a sport or speed plane setup on 8s with a smaller prop.
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:12 PM
Quadrophenia
egaus's Avatar
Seattle
Joined Mar 2009
915 Posts
I'm still having fun! Finally got to where I can pilot a 400 size helicopter around in FF flight in just about any orientation. Took two years of practice but the practice paid off. Next up inverted flight, oh brother, another two years...

e
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:16 PM
I think I forgot how to fly RC
cryhavoc38's Avatar
United States, WA, Woodinville
Joined Mar 2007
8,063 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by egaus View Post
I'm still having fun! Finally got to where I can pilot a 400 size helicopter around in FF flight in just about any orientation. Took two years of practice but the practice paid off. Next up inverted flight, oh brother, another two years...

e

I had built a trex 450, a beam 450, a trex 500 and two trex 600's, one lectric on nitro.

Never flew the 600's as it was a build project and I intended to sell them off. Just wanted the experience on putting them together.

The 500 was a blast to fly...and I never went further than forward, backwards, side to side and up and down.

The whole notion of upside down, tick tocks, etc...fuggettabout it..

I just loved the sound the main blades made when grabbing air.

the 450's just sat around since I could never fly them. way too sensitive
The 500 was eventually easy to hover and putt around with...bigger is better in heli's is really a true statement.
lol
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:24 PM
Ride Blue
jholen's Avatar
United States, WA, Sammamish
Joined Aug 2006
1,495 Posts
I'll let you stick to the helis eric
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Old May 12, 2011, 04:05 PM
Sniffing the glue
scamair's Avatar
United States, WA, Bellingham
Joined Aug 2010
228 Posts
lunch special

lunch special tangled foamy

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Old May 12, 2011, 04:07 PM
Training to be a cage fighter.
bicyclechris's Avatar
Woodinville, WA
Joined Apr 2010
499 Posts
No kidding, I've tried the little micro heli's but even those are really tricky.
I know that if I tried a larger 400-500 heli, it would end up in a million pieces a few times over before I passed the learning curve. Not to mention that I would go broke in the process. That's why I stick to "plankers".

Man, are we going to see a little micro foamy pitter-patttering around your house pretty soon?
Those two you've got there are really going at it!
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Old May 12, 2011, 04:21 PM
Team Extreme!
michaelJH's Avatar
Wa, state
Joined Oct 2009
1,166 Posts
Helis are fun, but my main interest is planes I do enjoy sitting down and flying them once in awhile on the sim though. You can do alot with those things that just blows your mind away after flying a plane.
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Old May 12, 2011, 04:27 PM
Quadrophenia
egaus's Avatar
Seattle
Joined Mar 2009
915 Posts
Just got the new Blade mCP X micro FBL. It's really fun, stable.

Helis are cool, if you don't crash them. I think that's why it's taken me so long to learn as I am not willing to crash so I take it real slow and easy.

Troubleshooting a vibration issue on a helicopter can be extremely frustrating and usually just involves taking the thing apart and putting it back together, replacing every potentially damaged part with a new one until the vibe goes away. Did that once, no fun.

e
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Old May 12, 2011, 05:06 PM
Team Extreme!
michaelJH's Avatar
Wa, state
Joined Oct 2009
1,166 Posts
I just sent my mcpx back to horrizon for a refund... I was flying and the clip that holds the pinion gear down (factory installed. - I didn't touch it) flew off and the blades whipped around and sliced the tail boom off

I would like to get a 600 one of these days, they are just so expencive, and you get so little mass compared to planes!
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Old May 12, 2011, 05:45 PM
aka JetMan Joe
MCSGUY's Avatar
Joined Feb 2010
2,773 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicyclechris View Post
True, ultimately heat is the brushless motor's Kryptonite.
I'm thinking that Vitter simply received a Scorpion 4035 motor that was from a
not-so-awesome production run.

IMO that is totally correct, heat is the main issue but I think motor frame and shaft rigidity is a close second if your doing serious 3D thrashing.

I've attached a couple of publications I got from Castle that cover the issues being discussed. They're a little work to wade through but essentially they say that everybodies right, at least a little.

Joe
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Old May 12, 2011, 06:10 PM
Gas Monkey Vic
Vitter's Avatar
Snohomish, WA
Joined Jan 2005
1,515 Posts
This is my go to 30CC electric set up.
Scorpion 4035-380
CC Phoenix ICE 100
XOAR 19x10 prop
CC BEC Pro
6S 5000mah pack

CC ICE log
Watts: 2698 (CC ICE logger is not accurate)
Amps: 123 (CC ICE logger is not accurate)
RPM: 6950 (Hobbico tach)

Amp meter
Watts: 2024
Amps: 92
Rpm: 6950 (Hobbico tach)

My amp meter numbers line up with Joe’s test data (see pic)

My short answer on this set up.
I have run several 30cc sized planes with this exact set up and some are a few year old, i.e. My Sick V1 and now Slick V2 on the same old set up with 300+ flights with no issues. The max temp was in the summer and the motor was 165F.

The long and technical answer on the Scorpion 4035-380 with a Xoar 19x10 prop on 6S 5000mah set up from a brushless motor engineers stand point:
Quote:
When running on 6 cells, you should not run a prop larger than a 17x10 or an 18x8 on this motor. This is a very common mistake that people make when propping an electric motor. They figure that they spend the majority of their time flying at half throttle, where the motor only pulls 45 to 50 amps, so they should be fine even though the motor pulls over 90 amps at full throttle. Unfortunately this is not the case. Another mistake that people make is that a motor may be rated for 70 amps and 2400 watts, so they figure that if they are at 90 amps but only 2000 watts they are OK. Again, this is not the case, you cannot exceed either of these ratings on a motor. If you run the motor on 8 cells, you will hit the max power rating before you hit the max current rating, and this would be the determining factor.

The way that the ESC’s work is that the full battery voltage is applied to the motor during every pulse cycle. This means that the full 92 amps of current is present all the time. The ESC switches this power on and off 8000 times per second to vary the power level to the motor. When you are running at half throttle, you get 92 amps of current for a few micro seconds, then 0 amps for a few micro seconds, followed by 92 amps for a few micro seconds and so on. When you hook a watt meter to the set-up, it averages out these pulses and will show a current of 45 amps, but in actuality, the motor is getting hammered with 92 amp current pulses at the rate of 8000 times per second. This happens the entire time the motor is running at a steady throttle setting.

Unfortunately, whenever you transition from idle to full throttle quickly, it take about 1 to 1-1/2 seconds for the prop to completely accelerate to full throttle. During this time period, the current actually goes up past the 92 amp steady state, and can go as high as 150 amps or more when you open the throttle, and then drop back to 92 amps as the motor reaches full speed. This situation is exceptionally hard on the motor, especially if the motor momentarily loses sync with the speed controller. When this happens, you will often hear a screeching noise from the motor or a clicking noise that sounds like you are throwing stones into the propeller while the motor is running. Either of these situations can wreak havoc on the magnets, and can actually tear them loose from the glue that they are attached to.

This is why it is imperative that the maximum current rating of a motor never be exceeded under any circumstances. If you keep the maximum current rating of the motor within the recommended value, there is enough leeway to allow for the extra current that is present during motor acceleration. However, when you load the motor down way over the recommended maximum current, it will eventually destroy the motor.
From a brushless motor engineers stand point we are all over propping but we all say “the manufactures specs are way under rated” How many times have you read that statement?

I think and hope the Scorpion 4035-380 motor I bought last July and have 40 to 50 flights on in the EG Slick and MXS just had a manufacturing defect. Like others have said I feel heat is letting you know your pushing the system and I do not think 165F motor temp in the summer is pushing it.

Chris,

I would say your right on track with 6 cells a 400-450 gram 380kv motor with a 18"-19" prop is the best overall setup for the Slick. I think any of the motors you are looking out will be just fine. Many out there are using them and are happy with them.

I would like to try out the Motrofly 4325-380.
19x10 APC, 22.1V, 6125 rpm, 83.77 amps, 17.5 lbs.
That is lower amps and higher rpm then my Scorpion. 17.5lbs of thrust in a 9.3lb plane sounds good to me.

Happy motor selecting,
Vitter
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Last edited by Vitter; May 12, 2011 at 06:16 PM.
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Old May 12, 2011, 06:21 PM
Ride Blue
jholen's Avatar
United States, WA, Sammamish
Joined Aug 2006
1,495 Posts
I'm assuming that quoted portion is from Lucien @ innov8tivedesigns as he handles all scorpion repairs/defects here in the US?
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Old May 12, 2011, 09:08 PM
I think I forgot how to fly RC
cryhavoc38's Avatar
United States, WA, Woodinville
Joined Mar 2007
8,063 Posts
lets lighten things up a tad bit.

check out the pilot I received today.
It matches the raven's colors

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