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Old Jul 12, 2015, 09:25 AM
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DLE-20RA question

I'm not sure whether I'm over thinking this or not.
I have a DLE-20RA which had 2 flights on it. When I first started it, I did not make any adjustments (straight out of the box), and it started right away. There was a little burble around the mid range, but that was it. 1.5 turns out for both low and high speed needles.
It sat around for about 6 months, then moved it to another plane. Now it requires 3 turns out on the low end needle to start and run. The high is still at 1.5 turns. I flew it last week and the performance was quite rough and dead sticked (ran out of fuel).
I was told at the field that the fuel was probably bad. So today I picked up fresh fuel added oil (30:1) added stabiliser and ran the engine.
Started up OK, runs well, transitions well, but low speed needle is still at 3 turns out.
Should I be concerned? Even the idle set screw cannot reach it (when idling) when screwed all the way in.
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Old Jul 13, 2015, 05:35 PM
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It sounds like you're still in your first gallon. If so, you're not broke in yet. The idle won't settle down until you get close to the end of the first gallon. The low speed needle is what concerns me, 3 turns out is generally too many. You might have some junk in the filter screen, the one inside the carb. You'll have to take a side cover off to get to it. The high and the low needles overlap by quite a bit. I'd reset the low and try again.

I've got three of the 20ra. One with lots of time and two new ones about to be fired up. It's one of the few engines I have that was near perfect out of the box.
Edwin
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Old Jul 13, 2015, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by edwin1 View Post
It sounds like you're still in your first gallon. If so, you're not broke in yet. The idle won't settle down until you get close to the end of the first gallon. The low speed needle is what concerns me, 3 turns out is generally too many. You might have some junk in the filter screen, the one inside the carb. You'll have to take a side cover off to get to it. The high and the low needles overlap by quite a bit. I'd reset the low and try again.

I've got three of the 20ra. One with lots of time and two new ones about to be fired up. It's one of the few engines I have that was near perfect out of the box.
Edwin
Thanks Edwin, I'll that a try.
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Old Jul 15, 2015, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by edwin1 View Post
It sounds like you're still in your first gallon. If so, you're not broke in yet. The idle won't settle down until you get close to the end of the first gallon. The low speed needle is what concerns me, 3 turns out is generally too many. You might have some junk in the filter screen, the one inside the carb. You'll have to take a side cover off to get to it. The high and the low needles overlap by quite a bit. I'd reset the low and try again.

I've got three of the 20ra. One with lots of time and two new ones about to be fired up. It's one of the few engines I have that was near perfect out of the box.
Edwin
+1 Take out the carburetor and make sure everything is clean, specially the internal mesh/filter, definitely 3 turns is too much
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Old Jul 15, 2015, 02:40 PM
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Never mix oils it can cause gelling. Check your mesh screen. Even 1 1/2 turns on the HS is wrong. Those are starting points. Make sure your lines are all tight. A loose fuel line can cause a lean mixture
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Old Jul 15, 2015, 07:47 PM
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Never mix oils it can cause gelling. Check your mesh screen. Even 1 1/2 turns on the HS is wrong. Those are starting points. Make sure your lines are all tight. A loose fuel line can cause a lean mixture
I'll pull it apart this weekend. No oil was mixed, only used Evolution 2 Stroke. I was told that if the mesh filter was obstructed, it would not run at all or run only at low speeds. All fuel lines checked. All connections clamped.
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 02:06 PM
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I removed the carb.
The filter is clear, no obstructions.
Checked the reed valves. One of them did not seem to seat well. There was a tiny speck of dust, removed dust. Reed valve now seats completely.

Removed LS needle. Nothing much to clean.
Opened pump, everything seems OK. Nothing to clean there.

Re-assembled and started. Requires 1.5 - 2 turns on LS and 1.5 turns on HS to start and run. but will not idle consistently. Will idle high and then drop and cut out. Runs perfectly above half throttle. Transition is OK but not consistent.
Seems the HS is OK but problems with LS.

Any ideas?
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 02:54 PM
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If it's quitting on idle, it's generally too lean. That could be an LS needle adjustment, dirt in the low speed circuit, or a vacuum leak.

You can remove that low speed idle stop screw and throw it away. You'll be setting your idle speed with the throttle servo. That screw serves no purpose in any RC application.

Don't hear about it happening much, but if the carb is open that far on idle, and you're talking about the LS being open 3 turns, you could be WAY rich. Starting over again at 1.5 turns on the LS might be a good plan?
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 06:09 PM
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What he said, but keep in mind if it's not broken in yet, the idle will be unstable for a bit. It took about a gallon for mine to settle down. Each time you adjust the low speed go back and readjust the high speed. The needles over lap by quit a bit, except at idle and full throttle.
Edwin
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 07:23 PM
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The idle is not just unstable. It idles very high and drops and dies. This engine ran smoothly right out of the box. I'm stumped and is ready to buy another carb. I really like this engine but can't figure out this problem.
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Old Jul 18, 2015, 07:52 PM
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Can you expand a little on "idles very high and drops down and dies" please?

Is this occurring after it's been run wide open for a while?
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 07:06 AM
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Can you expand a little on "idles very high and drops down and dies" please?

Is this occurring after it's been run wide open for a while?
Yes it does. I run for about 10 sec on full, cut to about half and rev up. The transition above half is smooth and response is crisp. If I drop the throttle below half it will sometimes stay at revs around 3.5 - 4k for about 4- secs before dropping to under 2k where it will then cut off.
I tried opening the LS when at idle, but it does not improve until I rev up again, before adjusting the LS. Opening the LS beyond 3 turns does not improve it. 2.5 - 3 turns gets it idling sort of.
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 08:41 AM
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OK. You sound like you might be experiencing what is commonly known as "high idle hang". All 2 strokes are capable of it.

The short story is that it's caused by a lean LS setting. To expand a little, the combustion chamber is hot from the high speed run, and taking it's darn sweet time to cool down when the throttle is closed (4 sec. in this case) - due to the lean LS setting. The correct LS setting allows enough fuel entering the combustion chamber to cool it quickly. A lean condition is basically allowing it to "diesel" until it cools.

When taking all your comments at once, especially the one saying you've been 3 turns out on the LS, this makes no sense at all.

Are you adjusting the high speed needle first (to peak), then adjusting the LS for best transition (or maybe just slightly rich of that) afterward?
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 08:53 AM
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That was the best explanation of the high idle hang I've heard yet.
Edwin
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Old Jul 19, 2015, 09:07 AM
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When taking all your comments at once, especially the one saying you've been 3 turns out on the LS, this makes no sense at all.

Are you adjusting the high speed needle first (to peak), then adjusting the LS for best transition (or maybe just slightly rich of that) afterward?
Exactly. I did notice a slight drop at full throttle maybe the HS is lean. I will open the HS from 1.5 to 2 turns then adjust the LS again.
Thanks for your help. I'll report back.
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