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Old Feb 06, 2013, 03:06 PM
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X1 Green PCB

Here is the Green PCB version. Note the smaller crystal oscillator and in a different location. The miss marked (flipped) rear motor connections, I think this may also be the case with the Red version pcb.

When I tested this unit in a very small room (big enough to hover) it felt like it was less stable (hard to hold a stable hover) and more control (like a rate higher than the stock Tx dual rate), BUT, this needs to be checked outside and unfortunately, this X1 has a broken motor mount, so I will test when I can fit it. More than likely it has different firmware then the Red pcb version. The back of the Green pcb had no writing on it, my Red pcb has V5.

Overview of the Green pcb;
Top left IC is the receiver, top middle IC is the gyro, center is the cpu, bottom left two are dual n-fet transistors (2 to 6A rating, to many companies make these with different specs) driving the 4 motors, bottom right large resistor is the current sense resistor, very bottom center looks like the programming pads, also they are on the back for pogo pin connection.

I may replace the 2 large electrolitic 100uF caps to ceramic to lower the overall thickness because I have bottom mounted my board. the Green version has a low profile oscillator, I like that better for my situation.

I mentioned in a previous post, it would be easy to replace the fets (IRFZ44 are 44amps and cost ~50 cents each) and drive much larger brushed motors at higher voltages, I might go down that path one day.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by --Oz-- View Post
Here is the Green PCB version. Note the smaller crystal oscillator and in a different location. The miss marked (flipped) rear motor connections, I think this may also be the case with the Red version pcb.

When I tested this unit in a very small room (big enough to hover) it felt like it was less stable (hard to hold a stable hover) and more control (like a rate higher than the stock Tx dual rate), BUT, this needs to be checked outside and unfortunately, this X1 has a broken motor mount, so I will test when I can fit it. More than likely it has different firmware then the Red pcb version. The back of the Green pcb had no writing on it, my Red pcb has V5.

Overview of the Green pcb;
Top left IC is the receiver, top middle IC is the gyro, center is the cpu, bottom left two are dual n-fet transistors (2 to 6A rating, to many companies make these with different specs) driving the 4 motors, bottom right large resistor is the current sense resistor, very bottom center looks like the programming pads, also they are on the back for pogo pin connection.

I may replace the 2 large electrolitic 100uF caps to ceramic to lower the overall thickness because I have bottom mounted my board. the Green version has a low profile oscillator, I like that better for my situation.

I mentioned in a previous post, it would be easy to replace the fets (IRFZ44 are 44amps and cost ~50 cents each) and drive much larger brushed motors at higher voltages, I might go down that path one day.
Thanks, Oz, for the photo and the explanations. Could you please also look at the bottom side of the green PCB and see if there is a version number?

Is there a good reason to use the large 100uF cap vs. the small SMD ones? Is there a difference in performance? Seems to add weight and profile to the PCB. It has already so many SMD components on the PCB. The 2 large caps and the resistor looks so out of place.

When you bottom mount the PCB, is the top side still on top, or did you just flip the whole frame upside down? I don't even know what the gyro would do? I suppose if it is upside down, and initialized that way, it will retain the consistency???? I'm confused.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Halton View Post
Well, I've started hacking and modding already. First I split a 3S 700 mah 15c lipo pack to make 3 more batteries, removed the battery cradle and put some velcro underneath.

Next job is to split my 808 #16 camera and then mount it to the frame.
Where are you guys mounting your cams, on the top, or bottom?

Then balance the props, and there she's done

Regards the stock battery, has anyone managed to remove the battery cap which contains the circuit to prevent overcharging, is it possible?

Thanks in advance.

Matt
i removed those on day one underneath you will find a squeezed up ocp curcuit i covered the plus side with a rubbery type glue let it set then covered the minus side (just incase the glue caused a short) once the plus side had set shaves off almost a gram and the lipo has around 10mm of wire? just a bit longer than the jst connector
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Pad View Post
Thanks, Oz, for the photo and the explanations. Could you please also look at the bottom side of the green PCB and see if there is a version number?

Is there a good reason to use the large 100uF cap vs. the small SMD ones? Is there a difference in performance? Seems to add weight and profile to the PCB. It has already so many SMD components on the PCB. The 2 large caps and the resistor looks so out of place.

When you bottom mount the PCB, is the top side still on top, or did you just flip the whole frame upside down? I don't even know what the gyro would do? I suppose if it is upside down, and initialized that way, it will retain the consistency???? I'm confused.
The two large 100uF 10V electrolitic caps are filter caps for the main supply for when the motors are running. Electrolitic are cheap compared to ceramic caps, but they are free for me and less than half the size.

The resistor is large because of the it has the largest current flowing though it, upwards of 4 amps (avg ~2 amps).

Good question on the upside down gyro, I wanted to protect the surface mount parts from impact and the bottom does not have any parts, so no need to flip it.

The bottom of the Green pcb has no writing on it.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 07:21 PM
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Compact 6dBi Collinear Antenna

We might want to try this antenna, it's cheap to make. I would forget about the connectors. Just a short piece of coax to the bottom of the antenna. It is a little long, and you don't want to point this at your X1, keep it paralle.

http://martybugs.net/wireless/collinear.cgi
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by --Oz-- View Post
We might want to try this antenna, it's cheap to make. I would forget about the connectors. Just a short piece of coax to the bottom of the antenna. It is a little long, and you don't want to point this at your X1, keep it paralle.

http://martybugs.net/wireless/collinear.cgi
im not sure the tiny quad could lift it

a helical might be easier to make though very wideband in design but focused (you would want to point a helical at the quad)
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by neobot View Post
im not sure the tiny quad could lift it

a helical might be easier to make though very wideband in design but focused (you would want to point a helical at the quad)
It's a mod for the Tx, not Rx, and with 20-24 AWG solid wire, the antenna is very light (a gram or two).

Post your 2.4GHz antenna on helical antennas please.

BTW, this antenna works great for your wifi router. Be warned, the gain of these antenna gains distance, BUT, be warned, this antenna is more directional, keep the antenna 90 degrees (not pointed at the X1), see my previous post about antenna radiation and gain.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 01:55 AM
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Hey Guys,

As mentioned earlier, please find the pictures from the inside of my remote attached.
To me this looks very different than the one from Jack Crossfire:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1744657

The problem is still there, the yaw trim is completely ineffective.
I don't think the problem is unique, because we tried many different quad and remote combination in the shop and it was always the same.
Except with the WLtoys remote, with that one it was working flawless.
Any advice? Idea? DIY?

Thanks and have a nice day! D
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dszegedi View Post
Hey Guys,

As mentioned earlier, please find the pictures from the inside of my remote attached.
To me this looks very different than the one from Jack Crossfire:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1744657

The problem is still there, the yaw trim is completely ineffective.
I don't think the problem is unique, because we tried many different quad and remote combination in the shop and it was always the same.
Except with the WLtoys remote, with that one it was working flawless.
Any advice? Idea? DIY?

Thanks and have a nice day! D
This is exactly like my Tx, down to the shape of the RF antenna, I have not seen your yaw trim issue with 5 different X1's. If you had access to another X1 Tx or 9x, you could do some testing, I wish I could help, good luck.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dszegedi View Post
Hey Guys,

As mentioned earlier, please find the pictures from the inside of my remote attached.
To me this looks very different than the one from Jack Crossfire:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1744657

The problem is still there, the yaw trim is completely ineffective.
I don't think the problem is unique, because we tried many different quad and remote combination in the shop and it was always the same.
Except with the WLtoys remote, with that one it was working flawless.
Any advice? Idea? DIY?

Thanks and have a nice day! D
I just thought of something, does your Tx show its trimming when pushing the trimming buttons on the Tx LCD screen (there is trim bar graphs)? The trim is pretty fine, in other words a lot of clicks to get to max trim, and much more fine on my 9x when set to "extra fine", so, are you at max trim on the X1 Tx lcd and nothing happens?

If you had a 9x Rx, and bound to it, with a servo you could verify if the Tx was sending out trim steps. just trying to narrow down where the issue is coming from (Tx or Rx side).

Maybe something is mechanically wrong with your X1 (like a bad motor, twisted out of alignment boom, etc), and the trim cant overcome this issue.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 04:04 AM
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Dszegedi, Another thing you could try is change the mode of the Tx from Mode 2 to Mode 4 (but the manual calls these Mode 1 and Mode 2). By changing it, the rudder and aileron controls should switch. If this is a programming issue, the problem wouldn't get fixed. However, if this is a mechanical, switch, button type issue, the problem should not be switched between rudder and aileron. So, I'm hoping that this test would tell us more.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 05:46 AM
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When you adjust the trim you see the bar going left or right, but even if you are the extremes it will not change anything.
I don't think it's an issue with my quad because the rate of turn is less than 180deg/min (it's not really annoying but should be possible to eliminate by trimming) and when we coupled it with a WL tx it was ok. I have no access to 9X (yet)
With the shop owner we tested in total 4 new X1's out of the box with different remotes and was all the same. It's like none of the TXs would put a signal out for yaw trim, but the WL.
I will try mode 4, it's a good idea! I will let you know later today!
Thanks for your comments guys!
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 12:25 PM
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Hello!

I have just tried mode 4 and it's the same. Doesn't work. All the other trims are perfect, but the yaw trim has no influence on the quad.
I will have to live with it, I guess, till I get a 9x. If somebody else experiences the same issue, please let me know, perhaps we can sort something out...
Thanks for the help and advices!
Have a great day and happy flying!
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 12:36 PM
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So, here's what I think. These BMI's are rebrands of SYMA. The problems are not with one sample but consistent with 5 samples from the same store. So, we could pretty much conclude that the same problem exists on the whole stock of these BMI's. The problem is local to the Tx, because the same quad works with other known compatible Txs. The problem is with the programming of these Tx, because Mode 2/4 doesn't make a difference, the LCD display is functioning, the rudder trim signal is not being broadcast.

My conclusion is that this is an incorrectly programmed batch of Tx that BMI got, perhaps for cheap from Syma. What it really boils down to is: You got a 3 ch, rather than 4 ch setup - unless you replace the Tx.

My suggestion: With the store owner acknowledging the problem, it really is not your problem. Get a refund, let the store deal with BMI. Take the money and go buy yourself a real Syma X1.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Pad View Post
The arm(s) should not be so loose that it would come out in mid flight. I suspect that the frame that holds the arm is cracked and therefore doesn't have the pressure to hold it. You might want to check on that and apply CA where necessary.

Or, if the arm is just loose, consider applying a very thin coat of CA on the arm - let completely dry and re-insert it into frame.
Inspected after work yesterday, hairline crack on the frame where the arm goes. Note to self: when you can replicate an inverted fall, let your friend take your word instead of showing them. After about the 3rd consecutive flip in opposite directions with throttle above hover, mine will stay inverted mid flip and not recover and plummet flat on its head. Not due to lack of altitude either, it has dropped upside from over 40ft up without trying to recover. I bet frame cracked during one of these 'demonstrations'.

I did not have glue handy, so I used some tape on the frame/arm and also used a string as a cross brace connecting the opposite arms to each other (tied to landing gear). It is working great so far! The loose arm has not pulled out at all after 4 flights, and the cross bracing is keeping a zip-tied motor/gear housing vertical on another arm after it was bent!

I am satisfied with the repair, but I'm still looking for an upgrade! I'm flying well enough that the range is an issue for me. I can't really go all out because I have this short ceiling to worry about.
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