HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jul 16, 2014, 03:33 AM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2013
65 Posts
Discussion
Keil Kraft Caprice info required

A relative new commer here and as usual I have begun this adventure as per normal; jump in at the deep end and start swimming backwards after buying some planes that were definitely not trainers, repair, crash etc, etc, I have decided to go back to basics and build a coule of glider kits in the hope for some more hands on experience and a better understanding of the basics, the first one is the Caprice that is comming along just fine:



although a bit rough and slightly out of square

I just wanted to know if anyone here has had this model and if they could explain a few aspects like, the best take off procedure, how the "auto" rudder works, what type of dethermalizer was used and any other hints.

John ......
jww_289 is offline Find More Posts by jww_289
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jul 16, 2014, 08:08 AM
more balsa please!
dcloin's Avatar
Princeton, In
Joined Jul 2007
794 Posts
Just wanted to welcome you to the hobby and forum. Your plane looks nice although I don't have any info to help you. I'm sure you will get some helpful responses soon though.

Darvin.
dcloin is online now Find More Posts by dcloin
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2014, 04:53 PM
Registered User
Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
2,575 Posts
Welcome JWW.
There are two Free Flight clubs in Melbourne that work together, so I shall PM you phone numbers for both for you to meet up with them for some help.
gossie is offline Find More Posts by gossie
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2014, 10:31 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2013
65 Posts
Thanks for the welcome and the PM's guys, I keep you informed on my progress, I can see the next challange before flying will be the covering.

John ......
jww_289 is offline Find More Posts by jww_289
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2014, 11:06 PM
Registered User
Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
2,575 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jww_289 View Post
Thanks for the welcome and the PM's guys, I keep you informed on my progress, I can see the next challange before flying will be the covering.

John ......
Do a Google on Pelaero......Peter is in Melbourne and will fix you up with whatever you need........He also has flown gliders/sailplanes for a long time.
gossie is offline Find More Posts by gossie
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2014, 11:37 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
12,060 Posts
You've not only jumped into the deep end of the pool but you also put bricks on your ankles first!

First off welcome to free flighting. And working with a glider is a good way to go. I just hope that you're fairly spry still since it will involved some jogging to get it aloft.

Your issues deserve a sketch which I'll do later today or at least soon. But a sketch that shows the DT setup as well as an autorudder setup will take a little time. The good news is that you can build on a little compensation for the stabilizer misalignment into the stabilizer mounting plate that also acts as the tensioner and hinge for the DT setup.

Next up is to go buy some slippery plastic tubing like Teflon tubing for electronics that you can build into the fuselage for the DT and autorudder lines. You'll want to install these two tubes before you cover the fuselage.

Do you have a mechanical DT timer or are you planning on using DT fuse? Or can you find and modify a Tomy toy? If you don't know about the Tomy toy timers hit Google with a search. There's lots of sites detailing what you need and how to make up such a timer. And for a towline glider a mechanical timer that doesn't start running until the launch is a far nicer way to go.

The wing spars on the Caprice look decidedly spindly. Hopefully the center section spars are from spruce. If they aren't then it would be worthwhile undertaking the fussy job of busting out the balsa and cleaning out the slots and replacing them with spruce, pine or some such stronger wood. Otherwise a nasty gust will be quite capable of folding the wing far too easily.

Is there a tow hook mount that allows for easy adjustment of the hook over a fairly wide range of position? You want the front of the hook to be sitting just a little ahead of the balance point location. And as the balance point changes as you play with the flying trim you need to be able to move the hook. If it moves in steps the steps should be no larger than 3/16 inch increments. And even that isn't great. Typically plans for basic models of this sort show fixed hooks. And rarely does the position shown work out well in practice. So this is another area to deal with before you think about covering the fuselage.
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2014, 07:11 AM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2013
65 Posts
Quote:
You've not only jumped into the deep end of the pool but you also put bricks on your ankles first!
I seem to do that in a lot of my endeavours

Really appreciate the reply BMatthews, a sketch would be fantastic, as they say one sketch is worth a thousand words ...... (or is that picture)
Not too sure about being spry but the exercise just might do me some good, lets see.
I will look into a mechanical DT as I think I may be able to control it easier than learning fuses etc so a little research on my part is in order, running the DT and Auto Rudder inboard is a great idea as the plans has the Auto Rudder running outside the fusalage through a couple of eyelets, the DT is not drawn on the plan, just a note to say use a rubber band to secure the horizontal stabilizer and place the DT in the rubber band ??
The wing spars are only balsa so I will have to consider what to do here, the whole structure seems a bit flimsy to me however I thought maybe the covering gives it some strength, I am not too sure that I should pull it apart at this stage because my skill level at this stage may be a bit of a issue in fact the whole wing structure is a "bit" rough and ready in places due to my heavy handedness
The tow hook is drawn on the plan in a fixed position as you suspected and is attached to a bit of rectangular shaped ply that extends from the bottom of the fusalage (the auto rudder attaches here as well and it looks like the tow line unlocks the rudder when it is released), maybe I should position this as one of the last things, at least that way I will have a good idea of where the balance point will be.
Again, appreciate the comments BM.

John......
jww_289 is offline Find More Posts by jww_289
Last edited by jww_289; Jul 19, 2014 at 07:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2014, 08:35 PM
Registered User
Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
2,575 Posts
Suggest very strongly to go to a FF club meeting and take the model as it is for the members to sort it out for you.

VFFS has a good meeting in a great pub early in the month for a drink and a fine meal and a show and tell with quite a few like souls.......both clubs will more than likely be there.

FWIW I was President of the club way back before we moved north to lay in the sun and do as little as possible.
gossie is offline Find More Posts by gossie
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2014, 05:19 AM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2013
65 Posts
Quote:
Suggest very strongly to go to a FF club meeting and take the model as it is for the members to sort it out for you.
Yep, will do eventually gossie, just a bit time strapped at the moment for a number of reasons so just trying to pick up bits and peices through the forum when I can get on line.

Quote:
FWIW I was President of the club way back before we moved north to lay in the sun and do as little as possible.
You wouldn't be missing good old Melbourne then, drove down to Rosebud this morning at sparrows f*rt in a truck with no heater ............... do you need a gardener up there
jww_289 is offline Find More Posts by jww_289
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 20, 2014, 07:12 PM
NSWFFS
Richmond NSW Oz
Joined Apr 2005
709 Posts
As others have said, welcome to the world of Free flight an I would echo Gossie's comments on going along to a flying day or meeting and taking your glider with you.

Do not plan on a fuse DT as they are illegal in Australia due to the fire risk upon landing. Either the mechanical timer or the smaller (and lighter) friction timers as sold by Pelaero locally are the idea. http://www.pelaero.com.au/ Click on "General Products" and scroll to the bottom.

Auto rudder in simple terms keeps the rudder in the straight ahead position when towing and allow the rudder to resume the turn position when off the tow line.

The easiest setup I have seen was a short extension from the tow line that had a plastic tile wedge pierced and tied to the end. When the tow line was attached, the wedge was inserted into an alloy rudder trim adjusting bracket to hold the rudder straight. When the towline releases, the wedge is pulled free and voila. Make sure the extra line is under rather than over the rudder and elevator or you may have to build another model. Either a rubber band or a small stretched ballpoint pen spring work fine to give the rudder the necessary tension to return once the wedge is removed.

Keep posting your progress, we're all interested and keen for you to succeed.

Cheers,
Rob
McGiver is offline Find More Posts by McGiver
Last edited by McGiver; Jul 20, 2014 at 07:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 01, 2014, 11:16 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2013
65 Posts
I am about to get back into the Caprice after some delays and decided that a quick build "loosely" based on the small pee-wee creep pictured here (as a towline instead of motor and adding a rudder) may help me understand and practise the some of the methods specific to ff that you guy have mentioned, at this stage I am wondering how the horizontal stabilizer is hinged so when the d/t is activated it stays with the aircraft I would imagine it is hinged to the tailstop but can find no mention of it.

jww_289 is offline Find More Posts by jww_289
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 02, 2014, 05:29 AM
Registered User
Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
2,575 Posts
Yes, the stab. is held in place from the top of the stab. with a band/s around to fuselage.

It needs to flip up to about 45 degrees to bring the model down out of a thermal.

May I suggest, the Pee Wee Creep cute as it is, will be a very difficult thing to tow up as it's too small. The Caprice is a much better proposition for you.

VFFS meeting is on next Tuesday night 7/10/2014 at the Leinster Arms Hotel cnr Gold & Hotham St's Collingwood starting for drinks and dinner at 5pm.
Call the Secretary, Sean. 94816607 Say hi from me. I did catch up with him a couple of weeks ago, and he's a very good guy.
gossie is offline Find More Posts by gossie
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 02, 2014, 05:45 AM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Oct 2013
65 Posts
Thanks gossie, I have sussed out how the bands hold the stab to the fuselage and flip it up but don't understand how it is held on once flipped up, if that makes sense ........
The pee-wee is really just an attempt to quickly put the ideas in place and try to understand them, I am sure it will fly to some extent, how it comes down might be the issue
I am not sure if I could make it to Collingwood but I think I really do need to attend a day when these guys are flying these machines for a first hand look see.
Thanks again.
jww_289 is offline Find More Posts by jww_289
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 02, 2014, 04:17 PM
Registered User
Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
2,575 Posts
The guys are often out flying around Melbourne both outdoor and indoor.
From memory there is a meet at Springhurst on a large field soon.

Give Sean a call to get places and dates.
gossie is offline Find More Posts by gossie
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 02, 2014, 07:48 PM
Registered User
Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Joined Oct 2004
2,664 Posts
Agree with Gossie, a glider as small as the PWC would be a handful to try to tow - much better off with the Caprice - or a Lulu.

A line from end of fuselage to stabiliser acts as a limit stop, adjusted to give about a 45 degree angle.

Off topic - I was with Pete Muller at Fairlop when he was flying his PWC; great little airplane only limited by lack of a engine cut-off system. Now, with a .010 and a lightweight timer .. could be fun!
Applehoney is offline Find More Posts by Applehoney
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question Keil Kraft Caprice jww_289 Australia 12 Jul 17, 2014 01:17 PM
Discussion Keil Kraft Southener parts from kit (NOT CAD, PLEASE!!!!!) Edubarca Vintage & Old-Timer Designs 21 Dec 26, 2013 10:00 AM
Repost: Keil Kraft Outlaw Plan required. Steve_Bennington Sport Planes 22 Jul 21, 2010 09:26 AM
Discussion Keil Kraft Caprice R/C Mod? Rob_P Vintage & Old-Timer Designs 1 Aug 10, 2008 09:33 PM
Discussion Keil Kraft Caprice R/C Conversion Rob_P Electric Sailplanes 5 Aug 10, 2008 09:17 PM