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Old Dec 19, 2010, 10:22 AM
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Don Stackhouse's Avatar
United States, OH, Bradford
Joined Jun 2005
4,074 Posts
The airfoil requirements at the tip of a sailplane's wing are not the same as at mid-span or the root.

The Chrysalis uses a series of proprietary airfoils I designed, each optimized for the local requirements at its location along the wing, but also tailored to work well with the other sections, and with non-linear blending in between. In addition, each rib has several different corrections added to its different segments to compensate for covering sag, giving a more accurate airfoil shape to the large areas between the ribs, and eliminating the need for D-tube sheeting (something a lot of beginners have trouble with).

The airfoils are not "undercambered". Undercamber tends to trigger lower-surface separation at lower angles of attack, resulting in a plane that acts like someone threw out an anchor whenever you try to go fast. It absolutely butchers your plane's penetration. It is very possible to get an excellent Clmax and good low speed performance without using undercamber, particularly at low Renolds numbers, where too much thickness and/or camber can actually hurt Clmax and low speed performance, in addition to causing problems at high speed.

The airfoils in the Chrysalis series are designed to provide a very wide speed range. One of our customers described his Chrysalis 2-meter as having "the same float as a G.L., but twice the range."

As far as e-powered vs. sailplane versions, we do sell separate fuseage+tail kits for both the sailplane and the electric. A very popular option is to buy the full kit for one version and the fuselage+tail kit for the other so you can use the same wing and have both.
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 10:36 AM
Torn 'twixt buildin' and flyin
TheNightowl's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2007
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Good post, Don. Thanks.

Nightowl
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 11:13 AM
Wood Chucker
Lacquerhead's Avatar
USA, TX, Allen
Joined Nov 2009
1,503 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse View Post
The airfoils in the Chrysalis series are designed to provide a very wide speed range. One of our customers described his Chrysalis 2-meter as having "the same float as a G.L., but twice the range."

As far as e-powered vs. sailplane versions, we do sell separate fuseage+tail kits for both the sailplane and the electric. A very popular option is to buy the full kit for one version and the fuselage+tail kit for the other so you can use the same wing and have both.
I am one of those that bought a kit and the additional fuse. I must say that is a GREAT way to go. I can fly in the ALES contests and I can fly in the RES contest with the same wing and same general flight characteristics, all while flying a US produced *wooden* model. I simply LOVE it!

I'm no expert pilot by any interpretation of the phrase but I must say I'm very, very pleased with my Chrysalis. It is indeed as floaty as any flat bottom glider I've built (GL and derivatives) and will easily accelerate with a couple clicks of down. I programmed the flap switch on my DX6i for just a few clicks of down elevator adjustment so I don't have to fiddle with the trim switches all the time and that seems to be working pretty well so far. I've flown with surface winds up to 12mph and I had no problem penetrating winds aloft. The true test will be after I finish the glider fuse and fly it with and without ballast. Having the electric fuse has let me know I can easily and comfortably add about six ounces of ballast and still have a very easy to control airframe.

Job VERY well done DJ Aerotech!
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 04:32 PM
Silent Wings
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United States, TX, Amarillo
Joined Aug 2005
670 Posts
I think with my recovering period from surgery that I may electrify one of my old 2m rigs. Less stress in launching off a winch.
G
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 04:34 PM
Silent Wings
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United States, TX, Amarillo
Joined Aug 2005
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By the way, gang

MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEW YEAR
and by the way ....I got #5000 post!!!!
g
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 04:41 PM
Torn 'twixt buildin' and flyin
TheNightowl's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2007
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Not a bad ideal, G., e-ifying a glider. (Just don't get hooked on it!)

You know, that's where the old rubber-banded-on "motor pods" were great. Put the pod on when you needed some oomph, but leave it off when you had thermals (and a good arm yet).

Nightowl
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 05:03 PM
Silent Wings
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United States, TX, Amarillo
Joined Aug 2005
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Very true, Owl
Still have one of my old pods that I copied from Tower. Used an .09 that would get my old Spirit up there quickly.
Just like my power days I sure got a belly full
of having to wipe the goop off the plane.
g
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 07:08 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
7,792 Posts
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! G-MAN is going over to the DARK SIDE!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 10:22 PM
Tunabiker
Del Mar CA
Joined Dec 2003
42 Posts
Let me reach out of the box!

I won an ARF of an "Optima Pro" sailplane, about 100" with a fiberglass fuse. I didn't get all the parts and I don't have plans and pictures. Can anyone help? I'd appreciate any I can get...you guys know a lot about sailplanes!
Tunabiker
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 07:25 AM
Torn 'twixt buildin' and flyin
TheNightowl's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2007
7,188 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcoot2 View Post
Very true, Owl
Still have one of my old pods that I copied from Tower. Used an .09 that would get my old Spirit up there quickly.
Just like my power days I sure got a belly full
of having to wipe the goop off the plane.
g
Well, that's the nice thing about being around nowadays. How hard would it be to mock-up a hollow pillar, put it on an airoil-matched base, and then put a lipo in the pillar and an electric motor on the pod? All the advantages of the old motor pod, without the slime!

Nightowl
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 08:15 AM
Silent Wings
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United States, TX, Amarillo
Joined Aug 2005
670 Posts
Tunabiker
Surely someone on here has some info for you!

Owl
Yep, the electric would be the way to go.

Jack
Don't count me out, pard....just looking for an easy way to keep my hand in
and keep the good stuff pristine.
g
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 12:35 AM
Wood Chucker
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USA, TX, Allen
Joined Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunabiker View Post
I won an ARF of an "Optima Pro" sailplane, about 100" with a fiberglass fuse. I didn't get all the parts and I don't have plans and pictures. Can anyone help? I'd appreciate any I can get...you guys know a lot about sailplanes!
Tunabiker

It's likely that nobody has plans sitting around any longer but that doesn't mean we can't make reasonable guesses and improvise. Can you post pictures of what you've got and describe what you're missing?
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 12:41 AM
Wood Chucker
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USA, TX, Allen
Joined Nov 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNightowl View Post
Well, that's the nice thing about being around nowadays. How hard would it be to mock-up a hollow pillar, put it on an airoil-matched base, and then put a lipo in the pillar and an electric motor on the pod? All the advantages of the old motor pod, without the slime!

Nightowl
I did exactly that with my Sophisticated Lady. While it did work I have to admit that it didn't work nearly as well as I would have liked but instead worked like I remembered. I used a 180W outrunner that I scavenged from my defunct 40" Kaos and put it in a Great Planes PowerPod along with a 1300mAh LiPo. Worked great at getting the old girl up, just remember to turn the brake on when you're programming the ESC or you'll also have a really good airbrake sitting on top. A folding prop won't hurt either.

Since then I've built the 2M Chrysalis which I've rained praise down on recently. It definitely climbs with more authority than the SL did even though it's two ounces heavier. I'd probably attribute most of that to the thinner wing on the Chrysalis. I have to admit, I rather like having the motor in the nose rather than on a pod.
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 05:04 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
24,450 Posts
HEY GUYS, I AM GETTING A WOODIE!

I never thought I would have any reason to REALLY become part of this discussion but it seems that there is a Bird of Time kit on its way to my house. I am not sure how it happened as I am a confirmed ARF type of guy and spend most of my time flying composite structure planes. Although my AVA and Graphite are open structure built up designs, the molded D Box would not qualify them as woodies.

One of the members of our club wanted to build a kit. That turned into a discussion of a One Design contest which turned into a club build idea. Now we have six people building BOT kits.

We started a thread on RCG and now several others are also building along with us. We even have some of the surrounding clubs getting involved so their members can build and join in on the One Design contest with their own BOT.


The One Design Contest will be in the summer so we have plenty of time to build. We are also going to allow ARF BOT to be flown too. That was one of the reasons the BOT was chosen, because it could be had as a kit or an ARF.

While the club has many winches and retrivers we decided to make this a hi-start based contest. We are allowing people to carbon cap the spars, wrap it, change the wing rods and even allow the wing to be built as the original 2 piece, as a 3 piece or even a 4 piece wing. But since this will be hi-start launched, the stronger wings will have no advantage on the launch over a stock built kit or ARF

You can add spoilers if you want, but no ailerons or flaps. The spoilers have to be taped down for the contest so that there will be no advantage over stock built BOT. Landing task will be a runway landing so no need to dork the plane to make landing points. No skegs allowed.

Some are going to build them as electric launch but for the contest those blades must be taken off an the glider hi-start launched.

My kit should arrive in a few days and goes under the Christmas tree. I won't have time to start it for a while but I can study it and decide how to proceed.

Guys, it seems I am getting a Woodie!
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Old Dec 21, 2010, 08:10 AM
Making wood fly since 2007
Windependence's Avatar
USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
2,501 Posts
Be careful here Ed, actually building planes can be very addictive. It opens a whole new door of possibilities for you. Before you know it you will be building them from scratch. Enjoy your build.

Wayne
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