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Old Dec 03, 2012, 03:08 PM
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United States, CA, Hayward
Joined Feb 2006
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MoParty This line of buoys is as the Park and Rec set it up in 1990. Fail to understand what you think we should have done differently. The space to the right of the buoys extends to the end of the Lake, Safety is keeping the G0-Fastee type more into the center of the Lake. The fast pass towards shore is exciting but dangerous as H--l as that is where the spectators tend to gather and if you lose it to the radio gods and touch the shore it will be airborne, hurt one spectator seriously and we all are in danger of l;osing our running privileges.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 03:54 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
craig_c's Avatar
USA, CA, San Francisco
Joined Apr 2007
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There already is a 'buffer zone,' it's just hardly anyone honors it.

NAMBA and the other power associations are unequivocal in their stance about running fast craft near a shoreline, especially on waters without an elevated shoreline or safety barricades/netting - it is not allowed. Boats running at speed are not allowed within 50 feet of the shore and must slow down within that distance. Violate that rule, get in an accident and you could find yourself in violation of your insurance coverage and paying for someone's hospitalization out of pocket.

Take a good look at the "rules" the Rec. and Parks mandated - 15mph and a 65db at full throttle measured at 50' feet.

That noise abatement rule alone, when enforced, effectively BANS gas/nitro outriggers, shovels noses, deep-Vs and anything else capable of high speed using an I/C engine and a lot of slow cruisers as well from Spreckels Lake. Almost* NOTHING with a gas or nitro powerplant can pass the 65db at full throttle noise limitation! 65db is the level of quiet conversation in a quiet room. 70db is the inside of a quiet car in motion. R&P knew this when they passed and mandated those rules.

This was NOT the Club's idea, our own rules were more lenient; 25mph and 80db @ 100 feet, nor was the exclusion zone mandated in the same way, there was just a pool-rope with floats barrier out to the 75ft buoy from shore. Speed boats stayed at least 75 feet out from shore when running at speed, that alone created a safe area to run scale and slow boats. But since it was a Club rule that only affected members of the Club and not the public, a few wise guys ran fast and without mufflers and then Rec & Park got pd off and mandated what shall be forevermore.

That was then and this is now and when the buoy and rope was last set up a number of weeks back, someone pulled everything out and dumped it in the pit area. So, OK, now we are going to have to do it Rec and Park's way.

* Capt'n Billy's boats always manage to get under 65db at 50 ft even though they have big zenoas.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 04:13 PM
Pond Sailer's Avatar
United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Mar 2012
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Speed Gun

Just heard a roomer a few days ago from a Sargent that next year the SFPD will be doing spot checks for speed violations. I have not found what the ticket will cost yet. I'll post when I get that info. So this has gotten the attention of somebody in the city. Police yourself's or be Policed I guess. Well it was fun while it lasted.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 04:25 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
craig_c's Avatar
USA, CA, San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pond Sailer View Post
Just heard a roomer a few days ago from a Sargent that next year the SFPD will be doing spot checks for speed violations. I have not found what the ticket will cost yet. I'll post when I get that info. So this has gotten the attention of somebody in the city. Police yourself's or be Policed I guess. Well it was fun while it lasted.
Fine is reputed to be as follows....

first offense -
$100 for violating the posted rule (on the sign) - speed.
$100 for violating the posted rule (on the sign) - noise level.
$100 for not reading / disobeying the sign.
--------
$300 Possible Total for the City. - (creative, n'est-ce pas)

So, yes, thanks to the folks running their I/C boats without mufflers, running at speeds in excess of 50mph, exceeding their skills and hitting other boats or flying out of the Lake and smashing into parked cars, etc., the attention of Rec & Parks as well as SFPD has turned toward the Lake and they may be contemplating 'coming down' on the fast electrics as well because of excessive speeds and the accidents.

Almost everyone using that Lake are pretty responsible, even most of the go-fastie electric guys and the amphibious fly-boys. They do not want to see "Imperial Entanglements" descending upon the Lake, but for the handful of people who just gotta see how far they can push things, thanks for attracting attention.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 06:10 PM
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Davenport, Iowa
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Rules

They are there for a reason! To protect everyone. No one is perfect Things can happen that you don't see coming. Why do you think there so many car accidents? Things can go wrong in seconds at speed. I saw a woman run into the back of a straight truck the other day. She jumped out of her car and screamed What the Fxxx just happened. HELLO you ran into the truck in front of you LOL
Bob
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 07:50 PM
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Oakland Ca.
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Nice Cat !

Attsa Nice Cat ~
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 09:39 PM
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Thank-you Gentleman for the the clarification of the purpose of the bouys.... what is needed is to whoever has knowldge of the powers that be who took it upon themselves to do so, should've MARKED a gas boat area further apart from the scale/sailboaters that would allow a larger part of the lake to be utilized.... seems we ALL like to hang out by the Hot Dog stand,and most of the LooKee"Loo's do to ..you can end up with almost 50-60 people cramped in that designated area, just to watch us enjoy our hobby,For SAFETY purposes, I'd suggest( to whoever) to make /establish a GAS zone only, 50yrds. east of the HotDog stand,this way, Launch and Recovery of these fast boats can be done in an area where others are'nt just "floating" about... I Firmly agree that safety is our #1 priority, and if your gonna do somthin ... do it right. I'm sure Parks and Recs can spare a gallon or two of green paint to highlight this area... I'll be at the pond this weekend to discuss whatever it takes to make this area as safe as possible... R.C. Lazo
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 01:53 PM
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United States, CA, Hayward
Joined Feb 2006
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moparty 50 yds is 150 feet in my figures and that is all of the protected area total. If you are not happy with the working area and rules set up by the Park and Rec go somewhere else to do your thing. The rest of us would appreciate it very much.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Joined Aug 2012
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A famous sailor once said "it is what it is and that is all that it is" Then a couple of toots on his pipe.
I say if it isn't broke don't fix it..been this way for (not 4) years. A Non smoker..sooo maybe two toots on the pot will have to do.

Much Fun
sc
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 04:36 PM
Todd Fleury
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United States, MI, Birmingham
Joined Jun 2011
110 Posts
Just a heads up for all go fast boats. Please feel free to come to a meeting at Kaiser Cove in Fremont. You must have NAMBA insurance, so look into that info. We are looking for more gas, nitro and electric boats to race. There have been some serious changes recently, and there are more changes to come. We fall under NAMBA district 9.
Todd Fleury
1/8th scale electric
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 09:38 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
craig_c's Avatar
USA, CA, San Francisco
Joined Apr 2007
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@Robert <mopartybob>....

Ok, you want to push it, I can understand that but let me make sure you understand the stakes involved....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopartybob View Post
<clip> ....I understand that park rules state that no more than two boats that exceed 15mph shall be on the water at any one time....<clip>
1) What part of the posted rules, when enforced, effectively ban nearly all performance-model I/C watercraft do you not understand? R&P had to understand this effect when they wrote them and yet those are the rules they made. R&P did not like fast I/C boats in the 80's and 90's, I can't speak to whether they do now, but I have been informed by others on multiple occasions, just like then, because of the actions of a handful of people, you go-fastie gentlemen ain't endearing yourselves now either. Do you really want R&P or the SFPD enforcing the letter of the law on the Lake?

And just so we are totally clear - NO I/C POWERED MODEL MAY EXCEED 15MPH!
We can still run heavily muffled I/C cruisers (displacement hulls) and scale boats, but any type of un-muffled, I/C performance craft will exceed either the speed or noise abatement rules.

Got it??
2) Do you really want I/C watercraft (and probably fast electrics) to join gas powered aircraft in the SF Muni Code?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO MUNICIPAL CODE - PARK CODE

SEC. 4.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT.

No person shall, in any park, without permis-
sion of the Recreation and Park Department:

(d) Carry or use a model airplane which is
powered by liquid fuel or designed to be used
with such fuel;
There is a corresponding section of code in the Port Authority Code as well.

Just so we are clear - legally, that places possession of a model I/C aircraft in the same category as possession of a firearm, explosive device or fireworks on Park property. This was enacted in the Seventies after an accident at the Polo Fields involving a U-Control aircraft.

The consequences under the California Penal Code for disorderly conduct conviction is a permanent criminal record, $400 and/or 90 days in county.

Is this what you want to occur to gas and fast electric boaters??? It is probably more likely that you might think!

Rec & Park has pretty much left the model boaters on Spreckels Lake alone, to police ourselves and do our own happy thing without any real interference, trusting the stakeholders on the Lake to be 'good citizens.' If they come down there and start enforcing the rules NO ONE IS GOING TO BE VERY HAPPY!

Robert, the comment allegedly made by Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto after the raid on Pearl Harbor is kind of appropriate to this situation; "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant...." Why, Robert, do you, and a few other folks insist on standing there, kicking the giant's bs? Rest assured, the giant of R&P is beginning to stir!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopartybob View Post
what is needed is to whoever has knowldge of the powers that be who took it upon themselves to do so, should've MARKED a gas boat area further apart from the scale/sailboaters that would allow a larger part of the lake to be utilized....
The "powers that be" would be Rec & Parks! The placement of the buoys implements a ruling made by the Rec & Parks Commission in 1990. The posted rules were handed down from R&P with the message Follow the Rules or NO MORE MODEL BOATS. These have been the Park's rules for 22 years! Don't you think it is time to start following them - instead of pulling buoys out of the water as someone did a few weeks ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopartybob View Post
<clip> ...I'd suggest( to whoever) to make /establish a GAS zone only, 50yrds. east of the HotDog stand,this way, Launch and Recovery of these fast boats can be done in an area where others are'nt just "floating" about... I Firmly agree that safety is our #1 priority, and if your gonna do somthin ... do it right. I'm sure Parks and Recs can spare a gallon or two of green paint to highlight this area...<clip>
50 yards of green paint for the gas boats only zone??? That is bigger than the entire current power-pit area plus the eastern area under the trees beyond the hot dog stand. (And we can't even get the 'No Bicycling' signs on the tarmac repainted!)

No! Re-read the above and decide! If you cannot play by the Rec. & Park rules for Spreckels Lake while at Spreckels Lake, the Fremont (NAMBA club) site really is a wonderful site, much better for go-fasties of all types and because of its shores and surroundings. It is really a much safer site for them, hobbyists and spectators, than Spreckels could ever be and you can run flat-out, full speed with other guys who are quite competitive and do the same, but you will need to buy a NAMBA membership. Kaiser Cove is only about an hour and a half away from Spreckels.


ps. Oh, "<mopartybob>," if you're gonna troll, use your forum handle, not a two-post 'sock puppet.' Kinda' obvious. Forum Stats If I'm wrong, srry.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 10:04 PM
Age quod agis
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I thought there was a 15 mph speed limit?
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 10:26 PM
Spreckels Lake, GGP, SF, CA
craig_c's Avatar
USA, CA, San Francisco
Joined Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD RC Boater View Post
I thought there was a 15 mph speed limit?
There is, on I/C powered boats - honored almost entirely in the breech which has led to accidents, contention and other issues of which, I am told, R&P has apparently begun to take notice of..
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 10:48 PM
Age quod agis
SD RC Boater's Avatar
Joined Sep 2007
1,434 Posts
Gas boat safety concerns at Spreckles.

I have been to Spreckles and if I were out walking by with my family, dog, etc and saw a 4 foot+ long weedwacker type engine powered boat capable of 50 plus mph tearing up the lake with the way the sidewalk is right next to water all around the lake I would be very concerned about safety regarding that boat.

Spreckles seems to be a lake more suited to slow scale models and slow sailboats, not large gas boats capable of speeds in excess of 50 mph.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:44 AM
Grumpa Tom
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD RC Boater View Post
Spreckles seems to be a lake more suited to slow scale models and slow sailboats, not large gas boats capable of speeds in excess of 50 mph.
lol... When Spreckles Lake was built and designated for model boats, I don't think any machine of the time could do 50 MPH!
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