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Old Mar 28, 2012, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by steveciambrone View Post
If you are serious about all you described above, it is really not needed. If a modeler becomes acustomed to the way a steam plant or loco operates, simply timing the run is all that is needed. I have boats with enclosed steam plants and they run just fine without any complicated systems. I am an engineer for a living and I would not want all that stuff in my steam boat.
If you are going to show your boat please tell any people asking about the stuff crammed in your boat that is not all required, since the complication would scare off a few would be souls.
thanks
Steve
Steve: That's what I needed to hear. You are right, just make sure you don't have more fuel on board than needed to preclude running out of water. Makes sense. Things are complicated enough. I'm a retired military Chinook pilot and USCG Captain, marine submersible pilot and consultant, so there are 4 careers that just breed worrying and fretting over details.

Thanks, Mike in Edmonds
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 05:08 PM
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Latest W.T. Preston Build Photos, March 27

Here are the latest photos of the build, plus some old shots of hull and paddlewheel construction. At this point, I could still go electric, but Steve's input above has calmed my engineering and design nitpicking. I think I can see light at the end of the tunnel if it is short enough. Keeping it simple is the thought of the day around here.

Mike in Edmonds
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 09:05 PM
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If you time your flight then you can end it before the water will run out, so having extra fuel is not a problem.
I will start the sea trials of a new build and run it for a little while and then check the water level. I then increase the run times until the water level is still at a safe low level then any subsequent runs will be timed to the maximum time with still some water left in the boiler.

I have been flying in the back of Sikorsky S70B Naval Hawks lately, we always like to land with extra fuel.

Thanks
Steve
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Old Mar 28, 2012, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by steveciambrone View Post
If you time your flight then you can end it before the water will run out, so having extra fuel is not a problem.
I will start the sea trials of a new build and run it for a little while and then check the water level. I then increase the run times until the water level is still at a safe low level then any subsequent runs will be timed to the maximum time with still some water left in the boiler.

I have been flying in the back of Sikorsky S70B Naval Hawks lately, we always like to land with extra fuel.

Thanks
Steve
As you know, running out of fuel is a cardinal sin for a pilot. I came close a few times in my 28 years flying Chinooks. I'll do several table-top runs of the model to check things out and do as you suggest before committing to the water.

Mike
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Old Mar 29, 2012, 02:59 PM
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Hi Mike.
Thanks for the pics, your build is Superb with all the detail how long have you been building it ?
I agree with Steve , don't get bogged down with all the Gizmos that are available I often wonder how modelers get to know their steam plants with all of the extras added on that can go wrong.
It's very unusual for a fire to happen in a steam plant as long as you lagg the boiler properly with ceramic insulation and all held in place with either light gauge Ali or tin plate.
All you require is a pressure gauge and a sight glass and if you want a boiler feed pump you can make it electrically driven or direct from the engine.
The electric operated pump has the advantage of being able to switch on/off as you get to know what your boiler requires and is independent of the engine..

My steam tug originally had an electrically driven pump but my new engine has an engine driven one with an overflow bypass valve to adjust to boiler needs.
When you get around to making your engines let me know and I can give you a sketch on making pumps.
I can recommend K.N.HARRIS books ( Model Boilers & Boilermaking ) & (Model Stationary & Marine Steam engines )
George.

P.S. if you click on the pic and then click on the image you get full size pics,
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
I can recommend K.N.HARRIS books ( Model Boilers & Boilermaking ) & (Model Stationary & Marine Steam engines )
And if you look in the "Books" section of this forum, a sticky that we fought hard to have made so, there's a free download of both K.N H's essential reading.

Regards Ian

(Sorry George, 120psi)
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ooyah View Post
Hi Mike.
Thanks for the pics, your build is Superb with all the detail how long have you been building it ?
I agree with Steve , don't get bogged down with all the Gizmos that are available I often wonder how modelers get to know their steam plants with all of the extras added on that can go wrong.
It's very unusual for a fire to happen in a steam plant as long as you lagg the boiler properly with ceramic insulation and all held in place with either light gauge Ali or tin plate.
All you require is a pressure gauge and a sight glass and if you want a boiler feed pump you can make it electrically driven or direct from the engine.
The electric operated pump has the advantage of being able to switch on/off as you get to know what your boiler requires and is independent of the engine..

My steam tug originally had an electrically driven pump but my new engine has an engine driven one with an overflow bypass valve to adjust to boiler needs.
When you get around to making your engines let me know and I can give you a sketch on making pumps.
I can recommend K.N.HARRIS books ( Model Boilers & Boilermaking ) & (Model Stationary & Marine Steam engines )
George.

P.S. if you click on the pic and then click on the image you get full size pics,
George: I started the build on Feb. 17th 2011. I haven't been keeping track of the hours, but estimate about 700 hours have gone into the project so far. I'll probably spend almost that much again in detailing the model and finishing all the working parts. I've thrown out the steam donkey I started and have a new approach to this part of the boat. This, and the rudder system are the focus of my attention. While things set up or dry I work on other small details.

Mike
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 06:40 AM
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Mike,
I think that your model is absolutely beautiful and will be even better when you have it finished, I don't have the patience to build model boats nor the space but love cutting metal, engines and boilers are my passion.
I am particularly interested in Flash Steam and if you go to my club web site ( www.glasgowrichmond.co.uk ) there are some pics there of my steamer OOYAH in the steam section and future projects.
When you get around to building your steam plant if there is anything that I can help you with please ask.
George.
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ooyah View Post
Mike,
I think that your model is absolutely beautiful and will be even better when you have it finished, I don't have the patience to build model boats nor the space but love cutting metal, engines and boilers are my passion.
I am particularly interested in Flash Steam and if you go to my club web site ( www.glasgowrichmond.co.uk ) there are some pics there of my steamer OOYAH in the steam section and future projects.
When you get around to building your steam plant if there is anything that I can help you with please ask.
George.
Hi George: This build has been a long time dream and every bit as challenging as I anticipated. It's not something you can do with the intensity and passion needed 8 hours a day for months on end. While it's not a job, it is a passion of mine and I've come to realize that I've got to take breaks from this. I'm not a machinist and don't have the tools to build the engine and boiler. I'm working with a person who can do these things and leaving the metalwork to him. It was this approach or go with electric drive. I tried to go to your web site, but my two browsers refused it. Thanks for the offer to help. I very much like to hear reviews of my plans from people like you. I keep being reminded to keep it simple- very good advise.

Thanks, Mike
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 01:54 PM
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W.T. Preston Underway

Took license using Photoshop to put my model on a river.
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 12:31 AM
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Benchtop runs are valuable for finding leaks and learning the intricacies of firing. They don't provide info for on-the-water timing of a run, though. The resistance of the water, be it to blade or prop, will slow the engine and thus provide a longer run than you get on the bench (before water runs out). Air temperature and wind will also affect run time: on a cold day or a windy day you have to turn up the fire, increasing rate of fuel usuage. So, take the bench test timing as an indication, but expect to modify bench results with on-the-water results.

I like your Photoshopped picture :-)
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 02:18 AM
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Mike
It's true that you will get longer run times on the water, but bench testing is a must.
When under load your engine will use less steam than on the bench where the engine has little work to do and the steam rushes thro' the engine, so the time on the water when the engine is under load will be longer and by experience and your sight glass , pressure gauge, you will soon know what your run times will be then you can start adding a water pump for topping up the boiler when running.
Try this link to my club web site ( http://www.glasgowrichmondmbc.co.uk/ )

I have also started a thread on this site (BOILER BUILDS ) on some of the boilers that I have made over the years.
Unfortunately a Red Mist came over me and comments became out of hand which make me ashamed when I re read them.
However apologies have been given and peace reigns.

You can also read my posts on my Flash steamer if you look up FLASH STEAM ENGINE POWERED TETHER BOATS you will need to go into the search box.
I know what you mean about getting passionately involved, at present I am machining a set of Stuart launch engine castings and have to walk a way and smell the flowers or get out on my bike for some exercise, although with the weather in the West of Scotland at present there isn't much chance.

I agree that your pic of the boat on the water is great, looking forward in time for the real thing.

George.
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Old Apr 01, 2012, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ooyah View Post
Mike
It's true that you will get longer run times on the water, but bench testing is a must.
When under load your engine will use less steam than on the bench where the engine has little work to do and the steam rushes thro' the engine, so the time on the water when the engine is under load will be longer and by experience and your sight glass , pressure gauge, you will soon know what your run times will be then you can start adding a water pump for topping up the boiler when running.
Try this link to my club web site ( http://www.glasgowrichmondmbc.co.uk/ )

I have also started a thread on this site (BOILER BUILDS ) on some of the boilers that I have made over the years.
Unfortunately a Red Mist came over me and comments became out of hand which make me ashamed when I re read them.
However apologies have been given and peace reigns.

You can also read my posts on my Flash steamer if you look up FLASH STEAM ENGINE POWERED TETHER BOATS you will need to go into the search box.
I know what you mean about getting passionately involved, at present I am machining a set of Stuart launch engine castings and have to walk a way and smell the flowers or get out on my bike for some exercise, although with the weather in the West of Scotland at present there isn't much chance.

I agree that your pic of the boat on the water is great, looking forward in time for the real thing.

George.
George:
Bet you will be surprised to learn that I play the pipes! Sometime down the road my wife and I plan an extended trip to your part of the world. Being Irish and Welch I guess you could tolerate my piping... My roots go back to the McCrohan clan around the town of Cahirciveen, Ireland.
Mike
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Old Apr 02, 2012, 02:00 PM
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George:
Bet you will be surprised to learn that I play the pipes! Sometime down the road my wife and I plan an extended trip to your part of the world. Being Irish and Welch I guess you could tolerate my piping... My roots go back to the McCrohan clan around the town of Cahirciveen, Ireland.
Mike
Hi Mike,
When you get around to coming over to this side of the pond feel free to contact me but leave your pipes at home,
I do like to hear the pipes but only from a distance of about 1/4 mile..
Any luck with the new link to my club web site.
George.
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Old Apr 02, 2012, 09:30 PM
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Hi Mike,
When you get around to coming over to this side of the pond feel free to contact me but leave your pipes at home,
I do like to hear the pipes but only from a distance of about 1/4 mile..
Any luck with the new link to my club web site.
George.
George: I am able to open your club website. Very inspirational. Several of us in our club are thinking about a vacation to the UK and Europe maybe next year with an emphasis on visiting model boat clubs and shows. If we decide to go I'll give you a heads-up. (I'll leave my pipes at home...)

Mike
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