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Old Jun 18, 2013, 10:03 AM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
Fugitive_Bill's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
1,158 Posts
Is it possible to run a #3, #11 or #16 without the PCB that has the charging monitor chips (that is normally mounted between the battery and the main board, IF I pay attention to charging times?

I have 2x#11's, 2x#16's and 2x#3 but somehow ages ago I lost the PCB from one the #11 when changing batteries, I can only think I got distracted and it went missing.

EG: Maybe if I only let it charge for 45mins via USB
Or use a REAL LIPO charger set to 1S and 1C at 100mA.



B!LL!
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 11:00 AM
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Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugitive_Bill View Post
Is it possible to run a #3, #11 or #16 without the PCB that has the charging monitor chips (that is normally mounted between the battery and the main board, IF I pay attention to charging times?

I have 2x#11's, 2x#16's and 2x#3 but somehow ages ago I lost the PCB from one the #11 when changing batteries, I can only think I got distracted and it went missing.

EG: Maybe if I only let it charge for 45mins via USB
Or use a REAL LIPO charger set to 1S and 1C at 100mA.



B!LL!
Speaking for the #11, I don't think it would work if you use the special cable. The special cable relies on the battery protection IC, so most likely you would blow something if you use the cable. I would think the #16 is much safer, and as far the #3's are concerned, well, it's been ages since I played with them!

Sorry, I'm too scared to try this out.

Remember the protection IC also protects the battery from undercharging, so if you let the battery die I'm not sure what would happen. Most likely not much immediately.

To be on the safe side, I would never connect USB power and always charge the batteries with your dedicated charger. Of course you would lose the date and time if you do it this way.

You most likely expected a more precise answer. Sorry, I can't give you one.

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a few spare batteries and have the peace of mind that everything will work correctly?
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 11:11 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,561 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugitive_Bill View Post
Is it possible to run a #3, #11 or #16 without the PCB that has the charging monitor chips (that is normally mounted between the battery and the main board, IF I pay attention to charging times?

I have 2x#11's, 2x#16's and 2x#3 but somehow ages ago I lost the PCB from one the #11 when changing batteries, I can only think I got distracted and it went missing.

EG: Maybe if I only let it charge for 45mins via USB
Or use a REAL LIPO charger set to 1S and 1C at 100mA.



B!LL!
The batteries used in these cameras have a dedicated lipo charging IC ON the main circuit board, or at least the #16 cameras do (I forget if the #3 had one). That should normally safely charge the single lipo cell without any added protection. But I think you are referring to the small circuit board soldered to the battery tabs, which protects the battery from not only low and high voltage, but also excessive charge/discharge rates. All the camera batteries had that protection. About the only way for one of these to come off and get lost is to un-wrap the tape on the battery end with wires and cut or unsoldered that small circuit board from the cell. Any way, if you have a cell without that extra circuit board and also have one of these cells that is dead, you can unsolder the circuit board from that one and solder it to the good cell that has none. Just be careful to get the wire polarity the same when you solder it on.

You can also charge the cell with a dedicated external lipo charger as you stated, but that's basically what the charging IC on the main camera circuit board of the #16 already does.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jun 18, 2013 at 02:03 PM.
Old Jun 18, 2013, 11:54 AM
Registered User
Austria
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Speaking for the #11, I don't think it would work if you use the special cable. The special cable relies on the battery protection IC, so most likely you would blow something if you use the cable. I would think the #16 is much safer, and as far the #3's are concerned, well, it's been ages since I played with them!

Sorry, I'm too scared to try this out.

Remember the protection IC also protects the battery from undercharging, so if you let the battery die I'm not sure what would happen. Most likely not much immediately.

To be on the safe side, I would never connect USB power and always charge the batteries with your dedicated charger. Of course you would lose the date and time if you do it this way.

You most likely expected a more precise answer. Sorry, I can't give you one.

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a few spare batteries and have the peace of mind that everything will work correctly?
Some pages ago a smart guy hacked is #11, removed the LiPo, use a 5v step up + 1 diode (5v-0.7diode = 4.3v ... just fine) ... and this was for power the #11 without battery and reuse the 1S LiPo from his quad ... the result was outstanding.

He did not report to have burn his #11 , but he did show us some nice videos ... anyhow ... it is something that I would suggest to do only for skilled guys.

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Old Jun 18, 2013, 01:41 PM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
Fugitive_Bill's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
1,158 Posts
Thanks for the suggestions/ideas/advice guys.
I gunna go ahead and wire the battery directly to main PCB
(When I get time, I'm one of those guys who have 5+ projects going at once)

I don't really care if I kill the camera as going buy 2 x Miobus Cameras anyway!
However I will let you know the results for everyone's future reference.

B!
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
Some pages ago a smart guy hacked is #11, removed the LiPo, use a 5v step up + 1 diode (5v-0.7diode = 4.3v ... just fine) ... and this was for power the #11 without battery and reuse the 1S LiPo from his quad ... the result was outstanding.

He did not report to have burn his #11 , but he did show us some nice videos ... anyhow ... it is something that I would suggest to do only for skilled guys.

Yes, this will obviously work without issues. He used a diode, so the LiPo is much better protected than a LiPo without any protection whatsoever. Anyway, this isn't the problem. The problem is with the original battery and the special cable. The battery would most likely be under 5V if there is no protection chip to limit the current/voltage. The voltage/current from the special cable does not go thru the regulating IC on the board but relies on the IC built into the battery - which the original poster had removed. This is the point I was trying to make.

As you may know, the special cable for the #11 is an appendix, a cludge if you want, and relies solely on the IC built into the battery.

Like I previously posted, as long as you don't connect any cables, there shouldn't be any problem aside from the battery discharging below it's limit. I did some power tests about two years ago by replacing the battery with a variable voltage/current regulator in order to evaluate the cut-off voltage and minimum current required. I posted this picture in the #16 thread. In the picture I was evaluating the USB values, but I did the same for the battery connection.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 04:14 PM
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Joined Aug 2011
483 Posts
DONT CLOSE IT YET THERES ALMOST 10,000 POST ABOUT A $35 MINI CAM LMAO, everything you need to know is in the 1st post as its updated and Mr Chucks video that I posted the link to in my fs thread pretty much says it all BUT MOST DONT READ NOR WATCH . THANKS THATS THE LAST OF IT FROM ME
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Old Jun 20, 2013, 09:14 PM
How high will it go?
antslake's Avatar
Greenwood Lake NY
Joined Oct 2003
2,733 Posts
Whew, for a second there, I thought this thread jumped the shark!
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 10:07 PM
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Joined Jun 2013
1 Posts
Hey guys- I'm trying to figure out what's going on with my #11. It seems like sometimes it randomly only will record for like 15-20 seconds, then the orange light turns back on for a second and it shuts off. This started happening today after only a few recordings totallying about 14 min, so I don't think it should be the battery as it was fully charged before that. Also, when I turn it back on again, I can do that 15-20 sec recording a bunch more times (it still is letting me do it now; if it was the battery wouldn't it eventually stop recording at all after a few times of that happening??). the card is 16gb and only a little more than half a gb has been used. It has the firmware that does continuous recording and no date.

I've been able to do long recording sessions in the past (Like from fresh charge to battery dying- I can tell because of that blue haze that starts in the left side of the frame + grainyness. It seems kind of sporadic, but I have seen this before where I go to turn it off after recording and realize it's already off and I didn't get much footage. Are there some common causes of this? Can the battery be overcharged? I've had it for a bout a year but I don't use it that often, maybe 5-10 weekends of decent use since I got it.\



EDIT: hmm, I checked it again and now it is turning off quickly...so I guess it is battery related. But I'm wondering why it happened so fast after only 15 min of recording this time where other times I could go for a full 40 min or so until the battery died. And why it would turn off but keep letting me record again for hte same 15-20 sec so many times..if it could do that then why wouldn't it record longer the first time!...
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Last edited by cubbins; Jul 10, 2013 at 10:26 PM.
Old Jul 11, 2013, 03:05 AM
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Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbins View Post
Hey guys- I'm trying to figure out what's going on with my #11. It seems like sometimes it randomly only will record for like 15-20 seconds, then the orange light turns back on for a second and it shuts off. This started happening today after only a few recordings totallying about 14 min, so I don't think it should be the battery as it was fully charged before that. Also, when I turn it back on again, I can do that 15-20 sec recording a bunch more times (it still is letting me do it now; if it was the battery wouldn't it eventually stop recording at all after a few times of that happening??). the card is 16gb and only a little more than half a gb has been used. It has the firmware that does continuous recording and no date.

I've been able to do long recording sessions in the past (Like from fresh charge to battery dying- I can tell because of that blue haze that starts in the left side of the frame + grainyness. It seems kind of sporadic, but I have seen this before where I go to turn it off after recording and realize it's already off and I didn't get much footage. Are there some common causes of this? Can the battery be overcharged? I've had it for a bout a year but I don't use it that often, maybe 5-10 weekends of decent use since I got it.\

EDIT: hmm, I checked it again and now it is turning off quickly...so I guess it is battery related. But I'm wondering why it happened so fast after only 15 min of recording this time where other times I could go for a full 40 min or so until the battery died. And why it would turn off but keep letting me record again for hte same 15-20 sec so many times..if it could do that then why wouldn't it record longer the first time!...
Your battery is old! These are the exact symptoms you can expect from an almost discharged battery or a battery that no longer holds it's charge.
If you have an "old" #11, make sure you order the correct battery. The #18s all have a larger battery which won't fit into your case.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 07:17 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,561 Posts
Comments in blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbins View Post
...
EDIT: hmm, I checked it again and now it is turning off quickly...so I guess it is battery related. But I'm wondering why it happened so fast after only 15 min of recording this time where other times I could go for a full 40 min or so until the battery died.
A lipo battery will develop deposits on it's internal plates as it ages. This adds resistance to the current and cause the voltage to drop under load. When the voltage to the camera drops below 3.6V the camera will stop recording. When near death, the deposits can even bridge between plates causing an internal short and the battery will not even hold a charge for very long.
And why it would turn off but keep letting me record again for hte same 15-20 sec so many times..if it could do that then why wouldn't it record longer the first time!...The lipo cell voltage will rise after any discharge. In the above scenario, it can go back above the 3.6 cutoff threshold and start powering the camera again when it is turn back on, but then cuts off again as soon as the voltage under load decreases again. The cell can still have a lot of charge capacity left... it just can't deliver the current the camera demands while keeping the voltage high enough, so it just goes through a short recording cycle every time it's turned on until the change is depleted to the point where it will no long turn on at all.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 01:21 AM
Serge
ua3xds's Avatar
Россия, Калужская область, город Калуга
Joined Jun 2011
659 Posts
Got a problem. Within updating process of the firmware the power cut off. The camera is bricked. I did load the boot file directly to the chip as it was described in this thread but camera would still not switch on as if it does not know that it should read the file. A friend said that there should be some line in the BIN file that would direct the camera to read the firmware. Any suggestions how to fix this?
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Last edited by ua3xds; Jul 17, 2013 at 01:30 AM.
Old Jul 20, 2013, 08:58 AM
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bulbsrtw's Avatar
Padova, Italy
Joined May 2010
37 Posts
underwater case

My #11 is 2 years old, but works perfectly.
I made an underwater case with mentos pack, and with it I made a short video of Stintino, Sardegna (Italy).
I love this cam !
Underwater video with micro cam # 11 (4 min 22 sec)
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Old Jul 20, 2013, 12:35 PM
Electric since 1990
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East Central Ohio, United States
Joined Jun 2004
3,735 Posts
Beautiful video.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 01:27 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2013
1 Posts
Hi
I'm so happy to find this forum with so much information about Key Cams.
I bought a #11 camera that should be a *real* HD, but I'm not convinced, and I need your knowledge and opinion.
One thing that I'm happy about, is that I found the seller name (eletech086) on post #2, but there is mismatch between what appears on the sales page and the item I got.
Here is the sales page:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...d=957289070006
In the attached image you can see that I got Item that is different (AV-out) from the one listed on sale page.
Another mismatch points:
- It creates .AVI files and not .MOV files.
- It creates a new file every 15 minutes (~625MB) and not every 4GB as stated.

Here is the information for a video I took:
General
Complete name : F:\DCIM\100MEDIA\PTDC0001.AVI
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 626 MiB
Duration : 15mn 1s
Overall bit rate : 5 830 Kbps

Video
ID : 0
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=15
Codec ID : H264
Duration : 15mn 1s
Bit rate : 4 916 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.178
Stream size : 528 MiB (84%)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 15mn 1s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 512 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 32.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 55.0 MiB (9%)
Interleave, duration : 1000 ms (30.00 video frames)

Can one please confirm if I have a REAL HD cam or not?

In addition, if it is a real HD cam, is there a firmware to restore the date/time stamp for this version of camera?

EDIT - 13/8/2013
Finally, after the weekend vacation, the seller sent me an e-mail and inform me that I got the advanced version, the #18. He attached an instruction file + FW (mov/avi) + setup utility. The FW & setup utility I got, is the same version as available on the #18 thread, post #3.
I've played with it and I'm very satisfied.

Thank you
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Last edited by shmilw; Aug 12, 2013 at 11:42 PM.
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