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Old Mar 09, 2013, 01:52 AM
I do this for fun!
Sunshine Coast, Australia
Joined Sep 2004
1,198 Posts
I'm very happy to note that Mike O'Reilly, CD of the biannual national F3B comp and long-time B promoter, is Australia's CIAM rep

Mike brought a Ceres to one of our biggest thermal comps when they were first out. He was using his thermal plane in the comp and was in contention to win it. I asked him to fly the Ceres in a round so I could see it go, and he did

(Disclosure) he is the Baudis importer for Oz. don't think that's why he did it though

Ken

PS: Laurentp, don't ever be ashamed to be French! Freedom means the right to your opinion even if others disagree. The French fought hard for those rights and I know you cherish them.
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 10:49 AM
F3B and F3K
RetoF3X's Avatar
United States, TX, Dallas
Joined Mar 2009
1,635 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2000 View Post
A simple solution to this would be to have MANY MANY more competitors in F3B, unfortunately the numbers of competitors is slipping, if I am not mistaken the last team finals in the U.S. had 13 entries, and 3 or 4 of those were there for the sporting aspect of the comp not really meaning to be on the team, in the 80's (and I think 90's) we had triple that number. And no doubt it is an enormous task to sponsor a B comp.
While this is partially true for the US, it is not true in Europe.

Even though the bigger contests have more than 100 spots, they are gone very quickly after registration opens and folks are on waiting lists. If you don't pay within a week upon registration, you loose your spot for the next guy in the waiting line.

Since arriving in the US, I could witness some new momentum in F3B in the US. Given the size of the US it is small, but alive.

Reto
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 04:15 PM
Registered User
so. cal.
Joined Jan 2006
2,755 Posts
That is good to know Reto, F3B to me is still the pinnacle of the soaring champs, J and K are neat but B has it all.
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 06:29 PM
Sloping the Financial Cliff
fcbflyer's Avatar
USA, CA, Santee
Joined Oct 2007
2,464 Posts
F3B is awesome, it has it all.
I say as long as the WC has enough participants and lots of countries are represented there is no need to get rid of it. If worldwide interest is not there anymore, or it is only there when travel arrangements are convenient, then maybe start thinking about having the WC every 2nd,3rd or 4th year.
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 07:18 PM
Eggcellent...
tewatson's Avatar
United States, CA, Orange
Joined Oct 2006
2,456 Posts
All the soaring world champs (B-J-K-F) are currently every other year.

Tom
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 07:44 PM
LSF303 / AMA Life Member
tkallev's Avatar
USA, IL, Wheeling
Joined Jan 2003
3,153 Posts
Having two WCs every year is probably one of the reasons the national aeroclubs are thinking about reductions ...

Maybe the WCs should be on a 4 year alternation like the Olympics, that way there would only be one WC per year (at least in Soaring). Other disciplines could adjust their WC frequencies accordingly.

Just a thought ...
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 08:20 PM
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San Diego
Joined Aug 2004
2,286 Posts
One of the many good things about the 2 year format is it gives juniors several chances to attend a World Championship as juniors. Often their first experience is strictly a learning experience. The second or third one they have a much better idea of what to do and are much more competitive. This process can lead to continued involvement as seniors which is a good thing for the sport. . .

We don't have a junior going with us to this years F3B World Championship, but I hope that will not be the case in future cycles. I think Dillon Graves and Tristan Sherman may still be eligible for next cycle. . .

Tom
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 09:14 PM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,227 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiesling View Post
We don't have a junior going with us to this years F3B World Championship, but I hope that will not be the case in future cycles. I think Dillon Graves and Tristan Sherman may still be eligible for next cycle. . .
I thought there wasn't a junior F3B world championship?

Ryan
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 09:39 PM
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San Diego
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In F3B and F3F each country is allowed to take one junior.

Tom
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 09:49 PM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,227 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiesling View Post
In F3B and F3F each country is allowed to take one junior.
That is very interesting and I did not know that. It is a very cool thing.

Ryan
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 10:39 PM
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
21,764 Posts
Tom Kiesling makes a good point about the 2 yr rotation and how it applies to juniors.
For the rest of us, having one type of WC every 4th year would seem to be a better option, if it must be accepted, than the one of killing F3B and F3F.
That may even open some doors for some of us that are not financially flush enough to do all we want to do. (Just trying to find a silver lining...)

Still, its just a shame to have people even thinking this way in the fist place.
I hope this gets voted down. Its sucks being in the minority.

R,
Target
Fingers crossed.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 07:25 AM
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Joined Jan 2005
224 Posts
... a silver lining? well, in both cases, if WCH f3b is killed or if it is every 4 years, the fact is that Daryl's record will be impossible to break.

Things are perfect as they are now. The fact that the only people with problems about it are in the federations, shows that the system is working properly.

What it kills about this is not that you are in the minority side, it is that this has been managed in the background for a while without letting people know about the intention. This is 100% manipulation!

What it has to really change is the way people are elected in the federations, not the federation in itself, but I would suggest that nobody can be part of a federation if he/she or she/he hasn't collected a huge experience practicing the sport AND GETTING RESULTS!!! But unfortunately those places are most commonly occupied by frustrated people that wants to win on the table what they were not able to do with the models.

I am talking from my memory now, but I am pretty sure that in the founding documents of the federations it will claim that their first duty is to promote the practice of the sport, not to limit it.

LETS START FROM THERE FIRST, TO SEE IF THESE GUYS ARE ACTING ACCORDING THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS OF FAI!!! As any association, it has to have the founding documents that describes exactly its origin and duty.

Unfortunately I have experience fighting this type of people, I did fought alone against the people that were in charge of the Model portion of the Spanish NAC, and step after step I was able to make them collapse. Only using the “Founding Documents of the Federation”. It is not that easy to remove a right after it is given. You can go even to the civil court to defend yourself.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 10:09 AM
Sink Stinks
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
4,452 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVSS Boss View Post
Interetsing watching this. Here, for the int'l group that probably did not hear it, our soaring national championships were profoundly changed for 2013 by the AMA's Executive Comm. with no notice given until we were at the Nats in 2012 and done to allow basically allow a fun fly to change dates. The decision had been made in fall of 2011 and it was a done deal, at least you have found out about this and can try to mount an effort to stop it. The interesting thing, AMA's President Bob Brown actually cited FAI in their quest to further support "fun events" vs. competition, that should be a red flag to everyone who enjoys competition.

Marc
It get worse Marc. AMA has decided not to support funding sending the representative of specific FAI classes to the meetings where these items will be decided.

This was recently posted by the F3 aerobatics Rep for the US:

Quote:
It is very evident that the AMAs direction does not favor the competition aspect of our sport. As the CIAM rep for F3 aerobatics I will not be attending any future meetings with our international peers because the AMA will not be paying for me to travel. We're essentially isolating ourselves - the only attendees going are the CIAM rep from the AMA and their alternate - they will be tasked with attending 4 or 5 concurrent committee meetings this coming April and then voting on rules proposals etc. at the plenary meeting. Sounds like a great way for us to lose our influence in competition. The AMA have said that I can attend if I pay my own way or have the SIG pay my way.
Then consider this off the AMA website:

Quote:
FAI Executive Committee:Chair: Bob Brown
Mission Statement: “To review and recommend current procedures concerning FAI matters to the Executive Council.”
Committee Members:
Seems Bob Brown is the one and only person on the AMA's FAI committee!!
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 10:15 AM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,227 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
AMA has decided not to support funding sending the representative of specific FAI classes to the meetings where these items will be decided.
Surely with all the folks in this hobby we can find a person that is very knowledgeable about soaring and would be willing to self fund a trip to the CIAM meeting.


Ryan
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 10:32 AM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
2,666 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
It get worse Marc. AMA has decided not to support funding sending the representative of specific FAI classes to the meetings where these items will be decided.

This was recently posted by the F3 aerobatics Rep for the US:



Then consider this off the AMA website:



Seems Bob Brown is the one and only person on the AMA's FAI committee!!
Repeat after me:
"the AMA is our essential friend"
"the AMA is our essential friend"
"the AMA is our essential friend"
"the AMA is our esse...................
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