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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:15 PM
KK6MQJ
Bajora's Avatar
Joined Sep 2004
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New Product
Great Planes Rifle 1m ARF Sport Electric

A lot of folks enjoyed the original Rifle, an affordable entry level way to taste the thrill of speed. Great Planes is bringing a one meter version of the Rifle to market next! Announced at Nuremberg this week.

  • Reaches 130+ mph (209 kph) using the recommended “speed” power setup.*
  • Optional “sport” power setup delivers impressive performance in a 90-100 mph (145-161 kph) range.
  • Dual aileron servos increase precision and allow flaperon/spoileron mixing for a wider flight envelope.
  • Lightweight, durable composite construction.
  • Low parts count and prehinged control surfaces offer fast, easy assembly.
  • Includes machined aluminum spinner and complete hardware.
  • Bright, high-visibility trim scheme.
Specifications
Wingspan: 39.5 in (1000 mm)
Wing Area: 174 in2 (11.2 dm2)
Weight: 25-28 oz (710-795 g)
Wing Loading: 20.7-23.2 oz/ft2 (63-71 g/dm2)
Length: 30.5 in (775 mm)
Requires: 4-5 channel radio with 3 micro servos; brushless motor (Ammo 28-45-3600 recommended); 50A brushless ESC; LiPo battery & LiPo charger

Recommended Items:
FUTK6000 Futaba 6J 2.4GHz S-FHSS Radio System
GPMG5220 ElectriFly Ammo 28-45-3600 Brushless Motor
CSEM1300 Castle Creations Phoenix Edge Lite 50 Electronic Speed Control
FUTM0656 (3) Futaba S3156 Digital Metal Gear Servos OR
FUTM0657 (3) Futaba S3157 Digital Servos
FUTM4130 Futaba Dual Servo Extension 6" J (for use with 4-channel radio systems)

Sport Battery and Propeller:
FPWP6197 Flight Power 2S 2200mAh 30C LiPo Battery
APCQ4096 APC 5.25 x 6.25 Speed 400 Propeller

Speed Battery and Propeller:
GPMP0861 ElectriFly 3S 2200mAh 30C LiPo Battery
APCQ4840 APC 4.5 x 4.1 Speed 400 Propeller


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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:27 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
Joined Dec 2009
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Hey Jon, thanks!

Looks like you got the scoop. Guess I'll repeat what I already posted in response over in the regular Rifle thread...

Dude,

I've been bursting at the seams waiting to start churpin' about this thing! I was hoping someone would spot it at Nuremberg and post a pic or something so I could get started. A lot is the same, but a LOT is different too. I'll check with management before I start bragging too much, but I'll leave you with this one thing....

CARBON SPAR

Okay, two things....

DUAL AILERON SERVOS.

That'll have to do for now until I get the green light.

Tim
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:37 PM
Crashing into the sky!
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Nice work
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:43 PM
KK6MQJ
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Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRProton View Post
Hey Jon, thanks!

Dude,

I've been bursting at the seams waiting to start churpin' about this thing! I was hoping someone would spot it at Nuremberg and post a pic or something so I could get started. A lot is the same, but a LOT is different too. I'll check with management before I start bragging too much, but I'll leave you with this one thing....
I know you were. I was too, though I knew wayyyy less than you obviously. SO looking forward to getting some flight time on this one Tim. I just know that all of the exhaustive research and development that you have put in on the original Rifle, seeing how to make it better and faster and stronger, will be incorporated into the larger version.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:51 PM
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Wow, FINALLY!

The Rifle was a great plane, but really suffered from its small wing. It's wing and design accounted for many lost models during unsuccessful launches.

As some of you know (at least Tim) I already did the dual aileron control on my original Rifle. I essentially copied the set up of a Sunracer, and did the carbon spar mod. It worked great on my Mega powered Rifle. However I quit flying it because launches and wing loading scared the piss out of me. nowhere near as forgiving as the bigger brother F5D planes.

This 1M is a GREAT idea, and I am surprised it took so long. If the price is as reasonable as the first Rifle, I am VERY interested.

Just curious, Tim, can you disclose some info for us? Motor mount Dia, more room int the fuse for batts? Stronger wing? I know you mentioned "CARBON SPAR" in your earlier post. Do you think the stock wing and plane could survive the 160-165mph range (of course, out of warranty....) or will we have to do surgery like the original Rifle?

Thanks for the hard work Tim, and everyone else at GP. Congrats on the new model! I will be on the waiting list!

-Justin

Edit, just read the recommended motor is now 28mm
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 03:13 AM
Expo/DualRates = Lack of Skill
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San Diego, CA
Joined Mar 2009
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Awesome!

What size/weight battery is this thing designed for?
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 10:49 AM
KK6MQJ
Bajora's Avatar
Joined Sep 2004
13,618 Posts
Another shot of the new Rifle

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Old Feb 01, 2013, 04:07 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
Joined Dec 2009
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I’ve been approved to release some information about the new, “Rifle 1M.” I’m a little nervous about “putting myself out there” personally associating myself with any particular model, but I love the airplane so much and am so proud of it I’m going to go ahead. Normally, if something needs to be addressed it can be done through the proper channels (Product Support) behind the scenes, but in this case I’ll be available to assist via this forum in any way that I reasonably can.

I also wanted to clarify that, sure, the Rifle 1M is still a mass-produced, mostly fiberglass model. Not a hollow-wing, painted–in-the-mold, exotic Kevlar/carbon fiber jewel made one-at-a-time by a guy in his shop in Europe. The disadvantages are that the Rifle 1M will be slightly heavier than its competition (though it still has a lighter wing loading compared to the original Rifle) and not as precisely made, but it is also considerably less expensive and backed by a company (Hobbico) that I’m quite certain has a good reputation for spare parts and technical and warranty support (not that other companies who sell composite planes do not). The Rifle 1M is still intended to be an ideal entry-level pylon-type of racer, but the improvements in quality and design will make it something advanced pilots can also enjoy, or easy for beginners to grow into. One of the best things is that all of the motor components and radio gear are ultra-easy to fit – the thing is a cinch to put together!

The published wing loading of the regular Rifle (outfitted with a 24mm motor and a 1500mAh battery) is 22 – 23 oz./sq. ft. At around 300W this setup is pretty easy to launch. But the weight outfitted with a “mid-speed” setup (around 420 Watts), a 3S 1800mAh 25C battery and a 28mm motor and a non-modified wing is right at 20 oz. With a wing area of 112 sq. in that puts the wing loading at 25.7 oz/sq. ft. This is a nice-flying, easy-launching, fast (130-ish?) every-day setup. I also have a couple of “Super Rifles” with carbon spars and paint jobs that bring the weight closer to around 22 oz. for a wing loading of 28 oz/sq. ft. These could be trickier to launch, but there is so much power on tap I usually don’t have any problems. Now, with the recommended 28-45-3600 Ammo, 3S 2200mAh 30C battery and 50A ESC the Rifle 1M weighs 26.1 oz. With a wing area of 174 sq. in. that’s a wing loading of 21.6 oz/sq. ft. So the weight (and wing loading) has been improved. Unlike the regular Rifle, there is no white base paint on the 1M – the white you see is the gel coat while the orange and black trim is paint. Obviously, in addition to reduced weight, this also contributes to extremely “free and easy” elevator and aileron movement.

From all the time I’ve spent with my smaller Rifles I’ve learned that there are uncountable permutations and combinations of motors, props and batteries that can be used to power it. For the “speed” setup with the Rifle 1M we’ve settled on the 28-45-3600kV Ammo inrunner, a 3S 2200mAh 30C ElectriFly LiPo, a 4.5 x 4.1 prop and Castle Creations Ice Lite 50 ESC. Static, this setup draws about 48A and makes about 520W (in), 34,000rpm for about 140mph – easily 130mph straight-and-level. Drawing an average of around 40A airborne you can go about 2 min, 20 seconds WOT. We will also be suggesting a lighter and slower “sport” setup using the same motor and ESC, except with a 2S 2200mAh LiPo and a 5.25 x 6.25 prop at about 45A, 300W, 2100rpm. With the sport setup you can probably fly closer to around 4-1/2 minutes because the current draw is less and you probably won’t be flying it full-throttle the whole flight. This setup is also easy to launch and relaxing to fly.

How much power can you stuff into the Rifle 1M and how fast can you fly it? Well, as I’ve written in the manual, the practical limit is based upon how much motor and battery you can stuff inside. I mean, eventually you get to the point where the additional weight or extremely short flight time will be prohibitive, so this will be up to the skill and will of the pilot. I have flown the Rifle 1M with an HET 2W-18 (3650kV) on 3S with a 4.5 x 4.1, 4.75 x 4.75 and 5.0 x 5.0 (around 800W static), a Neu 1110/1Y (4550kV) on 3S with a 4.1 x 4.1 and a 4.5 x 4.1 (around 1050W static) and a Neu 1112/2D (3250kV) on 3S with a 5.25 x 6.25 (around 860W static) and the same 1112/2D on a ThunderPower 4S 65C with a 4.7 x 4.25 (around 1200W static). The latter setup weighing 32 oz. RTF, but it’s an older version with white paint and is about 2 oz. heavier than production will be. All the flights noted above are WOT the entire flight (no let-off) including vertical dives to terminal speed with full (low-rate) elevator pulls at the bottom. I’m looking at the plane on the workbench over my left shoulder at this moment with nary a scratch. It still has the 1112/2D inside. But what can I say? Based on our power recommendation in the instruction manual the warranty will cover you if using the recommended setup or anything close to it (that’s around 500W power in). Above and beyond that, how much the company will stand behind it would probably be determined by the details of each individual situation.

Other features:
Improved, shortened, lightened aluminum spinner
Connectorless linkages (all z-bends)
FRP (fiber-reinforced plastic) control horns
3mm machine-thread horizontal stabilizer screws
Projected retail: $199.99
Projected “street” price: $159.99
Availability: Late spring, early summer

Images attached. You'll have to temporarily parden some of the "rough edges" as this is an earlier, hand-made prototype not from finished tooling.

Tim
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 05:07 PM
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United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Nov 2010
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Wow, that spar looks very similar to the "super rifle" spar addition

So, what I pulled from your response is that you are pleased with this model, easier launching, and full (low rate) pulls? So, the wing is strong enough that even at 1k power levels you aren't scared to crank and bank WOT on low rates?

If the answer is "yes, yeah, absolutelty, definitely" or anything of that sort, put me on the waiting list! (or testing list if I can get one sooner!)
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 05:36 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
Joined Dec 2009
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Crank-and-bank all day long - that's kid's play. Try pointing anything like this straight down at full-throttle, holding it, then pulling full elevator and doing a couple of consecutive loops. That's when the guys in the pits run for cover!

I don't have my data here with me at home now, but I was thinking one of my setups around 800W is probably the maximum "sweet spot" when you think of the battery you need for that and the flight time you'll get which will be around 2 minutes WOT. You'll notice my 1200W setup lasted about 1:20 and that was with a 4S battery (heavy). According to my pre flight calculations that was going to give me about 20% remaining battery capacity. I don't think a 1:20 flight is much worth it. The setup I used that gave me 800W was the HET 2W-18 on 5.0 x 5.0 and that was with 3S, so you still have good power and a 3S battery for the reasonable weight. Can't vouch for how long the motor would last at that power (I can look at the data later and compare it to HET's specs.).

Tell you the truth, none of the setups were BLAZINGLY faster than the stock. Lots of fun to experiment, but the "1M" isn't a contemporary, ultra-slippery all-out F5D ship with a razor-thin wing. It's a little "draggier" and going to go only so fast with reasonable power.

Tim
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 05:46 PM
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Very true. So about a 160-ish terminal?

I'm stoked we won't have to do wing mods! That is a great advantage alone!

I do however wish the servos were internal like those of us that mimiced the Sunracer setup in our rifle wing.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 05:55 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
Joined Dec 2009
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I dunno what's terminal. I'd like to think in the 160, 170, 180 range???

Problem with internal servos is torque rods. With control horns and no torque rods you get about as direct a linkage as can be. Torque rods can introduce binding. Or, if no binding, free play. At any rate, you also get a small degree of the rod bending due to torque loads, and again, slightly more free play. Look at the linkages of all the top-shelf F5D/F5B stuff - you'll see no torque rods and horns.

Plus, you get the servos out of the middle of the wing for more strength and more room inside the cabin.

Tim
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:14 PM
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Looks really cool, nice work helping getting it developed and produced Tim. By the sound of how much room there is in the fuse, it's going to be popular.

It's a shame the UK won't be able to retail this anywhere near what you guys will pay for it, the normal Rifle retails at only £20 less than I can get a Voodoo for. Unless you can persuade your marketing department to make it competitvely priced over here...

But seriously...nice work.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:24 PM
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Very bocce Tim. I do agree about the servos, however the Sunracer does fine up to 180 with this setup. The other f5d planes usually don't so it because the ailerons are much further out on the wing creating a very ling torque tube.

It sounds like structurally you guys nailed it! I am super stoked to have an affordable mid size pylon plane that does not need mods! The wing loading sounds like a nice relief too. Truthfully all my original rifles were a bit of a hassle. I live in the high desert, and any given day I can have a density altitude of up to 7-8k! This made launching my stock rifle, and mega powered rifle a hassle when compared to a sunracer, and full size F5D planes.

Looking for any testers or reviewers? I would live to get my hands on one as soon as possible!
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 08:34 PM
Crashing into the sky!
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Great work Tim, looks like fun
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