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Old Aug 19, 2012, 07:58 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
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This photo is from the Wikipedia entry on Richard Schreder here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Schreder
and is captioned: " (right to left) HP-8, HP-10, HP-11 at 1963 US Soaring Championships at Harris Hill, Elmira, NY."

The Wikipedia entry includes the story of how he got the Distinguished Flying Cross while commanding a PBM Mariner: "While in the Navy, Schreder was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for the sinking of the German U-boat U-158 off Bermuda on 30 June 1942 while commanding a Martin PBM Mariner.[1] Schreder's airmanship and marksmanship were such that he achieved a direct hit on the deck of the submarine with a depth charge. Schreder and his crew were initially disappointed when the depth charge did not explode on impact, and that it merely lodged itself into the teak planking of the deck. However, they continued to circle the site after the U-boat submerged, and observed that the charge detonated after the sub carried it down to its pre-set trigger depth."

There is a biography of Richard Schreder here: http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Sc...Biography.html with the notation "Schreder's collection lands in Smithsonian" so there is another place to dig.
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 11:04 PM
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[snip]
There is a biography of Richard Schreder here: http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Sc...Biography.html with the notation "Schreder's collection lands in Smithsonian" so there is another place to dig.
I am mostly interested in the HP-8 since I learned to fly at the same field where Moffat was when he owned the HP-8. I helped put it together on occasion and gabbed with Moffat about sailboats while he worked in the wing with micro balloons and resin.

The HP-8 is in storage at Harris Hill in Ithaca NY awaiting restoration. I'd love to see it again since my last look at it was probably almost fifty years ago.

BTW, I think the shape of the fuse bottom is slightly indented right under the wing and not smooth as in the somewhat cleaner three views. Some of the photos seem to confirm that it was not a perfectly smooth blend.

Pete
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 08:11 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
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Pete,

Here is a rotated version of prodjx's drawing that will make it easier to compare details between the drawings.

Richard
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 09:10 AM
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Pete, and Richard thanks for keeping this thread going.
I have been keeping up with you guys but have been too busy to make any progress on a model. I will be finishing up my season in October and will get going on making the HP-8 a real model. I appreciate all your efforts to clarify, the shape of this glider, and all the ancedotal comments remarks a bout the people, the gliders, and the sport in the early 60's.
LJ
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 10:24 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
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Thanks. I made copies for my collection of HP-8 data.

I'll probably redo my drawings. Looks like a cleaner version of what I worked from. Slightly different at bottom of fuse which bothered me on the first drawings.

Edit: Might be different since flaps and spoilers are not shown I wonder what both drawings used as a source.

Pete
Pete,

According to the HP-8 Data in my post, it gives specifications on flaps and spoilers and they just aren't shown on the drawings.

Richard
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 11:51 AM
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I recently bought and watched The Sun Ship Game. Fascinating stuff...highly recommend it.

Tom

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I will pass on that Robert Drews movie The Sun Ship Game is now available on DVD , I got mine from Amazon. This movie offers great insight in to the rise of George Moffat's domination of US soaring competition. You can also see full size ships from that era that are now just memories.
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 11:17 PM
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Thanks Richard,

You'll notice that in prodjx's drawing the fuse bottom does not blend smoothly into the rear part of the fuse as it does in the drawing that you posted. A few of the photos confirm that the earlier drawing is correct.

Hi Larry,

Glad to see you are able to follow this wherever in the world you are. The Internet is amazing.

Pete
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 11:38 PM
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I recently bought and watched The Sun Ship Game. Fascinating stuff...highly recommend it.

Tom
Watched it and Zulu Romeo, Good Start. I liked them both. I also liked what Gleb Derujinski felt about soaring, that it was a beautiful sport and competition spoiled it. He may not have said it in those exact words but I understand the feeling.

On the other hand if you are out in a sailboat late at night cruising along, minding your own business and you happen to be on a course that more or less parallels another boat you will always trim your sails a bit to see if you can outsail him and while you're doing it you will almost always hear a winch clicking on the other boat. Competition is just human nature.

If you read some of the flying stuff in my blog you'll see that I am not immune. I'm thinking about the time I glided back from Mount Cathalia with someone in a superior plane but arriving with more altitude than they did by flying more carefully, then wondering if he was the better pilot because he made it in a straight glide.

Staying up when nobody else does, or launching early and catching the first thermal of the day. Every flight has its competitive aspect.

Pete
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 12:54 AM
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Please remember that was not my drawing it was a drawing out of his daughter's book that I happened to have. Just trying to help.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 02:06 AM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar
Burleson, Texas
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Pete,

The best set of drawings might be a combination of both drawings. Another thing to consider is prodjx's drawing from the 10,000 Feet book was published in 2001 and the drawing I posted was published in 1963. Something the older drawing has is all of the dimensions and a lot of specifications you don't see published today. Another source of drawings is would be Schreder's papers at the Smithsonian, although going to see the real thing would be more fun, but measuring full size airplanes is a pain.

Just ordered a copy of 10,000 Feet and ordered The Sunship Game yesterday.

Richard
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 06:20 AM
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Please remember that was not my drawing it was a drawing out of his daughter's book that I happened to have. Just trying to help.
No criticism at all. Though simple and small the fuse appears to be more accurately drawn in the version you posted. Some of the photos confirm the shape.

The actual HP-8 is unavailable. It is not on exhibit and it may not be easily accessible. It's been in the hands of the soaring museum for years but there are no details known about its condition.

Pete
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 11:13 AM
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One wonder's how many glider's there are not on display. Who make's the decision as to what glider take presidense over another. Is it man power and or space requirement's, what? How about getting all the modeler's and people that have an aircraft building or maintenence background together and blitzing out all these un-displayed A/C. Sadly we may step on some toe's though.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 05:34 PM
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One wonder's how many glider's there are not on display. Who make's the decision as to what glider take presidense over another. Is it man power and or space requirement's, what? How about getting all the modeler's and people that have an aircraft building or maintenence background together and blitzing out all these un-displayed A/C. Sadly we may step on some toe's though.
Shortly after Moffat sold the HP-8 we heard the the new owner crashed it. The HP-8 was known to be very light on the elevator with no feedback for the pilot to feel changes in airspeed. My guess is that it's not on display because it isn't presentable and the repairs may involve more expense than the museum has available or is beyond the capability of any volunteers.

Just a guess on my part, but I do remember hearing that the new owner did bang it up. Schreder did a start at a nats when he still owned the sailplane, where he went far enough over red line going through the gate to get tail flutter. That's probably an example of the light elevator forces. He worked on the plane all night and was able to fly the next day. I forget where I read it but probably Air Progress, which was the best aviation magazine of its era.

Pete
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 01:54 PM
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there are plenty of interesting gliders in storage at the NSM, all of them are listed on the museums website. There are lots of reasons why they aren't displayed, including the fact that the museum is pretty much full!
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Old Aug 26, 2012, 10:55 AM
Lost in the Sky
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Burleson, Texas
Joined Jun 2003
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HP-8 on display at the NSM

There is an HP-8 on display at the National Soaring Museum, but it isn't the original. It is in an esquisite horseshoe shaped display of a very large number of beautiful sailplane models built by many different model makers. You see this display after you enter the museum and walk to the railing of a balcony that overlooks the main gallery. The HP-8 model is in the display and the only full scale Schreder I saw was an HP-18.

I visited the NSM in August 2008 as a turn point on a 6000 mile road trip from Texas up through the northeastern US and Canada. I took a glider ride while I was there as well.

Richard
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