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Old Jul 05, 2012, 11:07 AM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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So ... who do you blame?

http://news.yahoo.com/report-country...030119140.html

It is in my opinion that the majority of the blame lies that the feet of Government and the politicians that make up Government.

You can't buy influence ... if no one's selling it.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 11:12 AM
I want to go flying!
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Joined May 2010
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LOL Bank Of America bought Country Wide four years ago and has lost over 40 BILLION from the deal.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 02:00 PM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
http://news.yahoo.com/report-country...030119140.html

It is in my opinion that the majority of the blame lies that the feet of Government and the politicians that make up Government.

You can't buy influence ... if no one's selling it.
Nope. It's the stupidity of voters who put them in a position of power based upon false promises of "something for nothing".
Then once in power, it's those same politicians who sell their votes once again to the business that makes an offer to buy them once again.
The crooked politicians (and not all are crooked) are the whores, but it's the voters who are the johns who put them in a compromising position that they can't handle in the first place.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 02:31 PM
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United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Feb 2012
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The blame lies squarely on the public. We continue to let politicians cow-tow to corporations. It's no ones fault but our own.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 03:40 PM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
312 Posts
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Originally Posted by dedStik View Post
The blame lies squarely on the public. We continue to let politicians cow-tow to corporations. It's no ones fault but our own.
We don't let politicians cow-tow to buisnesses ... we let politicians have the influence that buisnesses want to buy.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 04:01 PM
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United States, NC, Surf City
Joined Oct 2003
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One problem is that whenever publicly-financed elections is proposed, it is shot down by the knee-jerks who say it is giving our money to politicians. I say, I'd rather them owe their seats to US than the highest bidder(s).

And yes, I know Obama rejected public financing and I didn't like it at the time, but given the rise of the Superpacs (which pre-existed Citizens United), it was a probably necessary form of political self defense!

The hoghest irony is that accepting a small gift (such as lunch/dinner/drinks, etc.) is illegal, but bundling thousands (millions) of dollars in campaign contributions is okay.

I'll give you a personal example. When I was in Maryland politics, I never heard of a vote traded for a dinner, but a State Senator -- whom I was lobbying on an environmental issue -- told me "Let's say you and your allies convinced me that you are right and this road will not ease congestion, will cost too much and damage the environment, and I voted your way. Wouldn't that be a betrayal of the people who have given me a million dollars in contributions over the last 20 years have been defrauded?"

There's our problem in a nutshell. It probably explains why we got the HCA instead of Medicare-E, bailing out banks but not homeowners, etc.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 12:29 AM
trying to miss the ground
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United States, ID, Rigby
Joined Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by Highflight View Post
Nope. It's the stupidity of voters who put them in a position of power based upon false promises of "something for nothing".
Then once in power, it's those same politicians who sell their votes once again to the business that makes an offer to buy them once again.
The crooked politicians (and not all are crooked) are the whores, but it's the voters who are the johns who put them in a compromising position that they can't handle in the first place.
Exactly. Power often corrupts, and corrupt men often seek power. It has been this way since the dawn of man and will continue to be this way until the end of man. It is the responsibility of the people to keep the honest men in power and the crooks out. As long as we remain a republic, the voters are to blame.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 05:31 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Originally Posted by Bob HSG View Post
One problem is that whenever publicly-financed elections is proposed, it is shot down by the knee-jerks who say it is giving our money to politicians. I say, I'd rather them owe their seats to US than the highest bidder(s).
Ideas win elections, not dollars. The only thing election financing does is help to get the ideas out.

If you want real change, let's figure out a way to make the damage done by bad legislation be answerable by politicians directly by fining them and jailing them.
There would immediately be less legislation, and better legislation.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 08:56 AM
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Darn and i know of a congressman that is not corrupted.
but he aint young or pretty. so no self respecting American would ever vote on sustenance instead of words ........
my conscious is clean is yours?
will it be after obozo wins again? Rummy will not see the white house! id rather face a dictator as to a benevolent overmaster. least i see the evil and rummy is evil. you may quote me on that.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 09:31 AM
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United States, NC, Surf City
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highflight View Post
Ideas win elections, not dollars. The only thing election financing does is help to get the ideas out.

If you want real change, let's figure out a way to make the damage done by bad legislation be answerable by politicians directly by fining them and jailing them.
There would immediately be less legislation, and better legislation.
Under such circumstances, who in their right mind would run for office? After all, even if they're totally honest, they still might somehow run afioul of some regulation or another -- or especially accused of and wrongly convicted --and end up in jail. There's a reason the President and Congress cannot be sued for their official actions, and that's because otherwise they'd do NOTHING!

I know that's what some folks around here would think is ideal, but in reality, the result would be chaos.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 10:19 AM
LcJ
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United States, LA, Monroe
Joined Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob HSG View Post
One problem is that whenever publicly-financed elections is proposed, it is shot down by the knee-jerks who say it is giving our money to politicians. I say, I'd rather them owe their seats to US than the highest bidder(s).

And yes, I know Obama rejected public financing and I didn't like it at the time, but given the rise of the Superpacs (which pre-existed Citizens United), it was a probably necessary form of political self defense!

The hoghest irony is that accepting a small gift (such as lunch/dinner/drinks, etc.) is illegal, but bundling thousands (millions) of dollars in campaign contributions is okay.

I'll give you a personal example. When I was in Maryland politics, I never heard of a vote traded for a dinner, but a State Senator -- whom I was lobbying on an environmental issue -- told me "Let's say you and your allies convinced me that you are right and this road will not ease congestion, will cost too much and damage the environment, and I voted your way. Wouldn't that be a betrayal of the people who have given me a million dollars in contributions over the last 20 years have been defrauded?"

There's our problem in a nutshell. It probably explains why we got the HCA instead of Medicare-E, bailing out banks but not homeowners, etc.
The biggest problem I have with this is the near total saturation of progressives in government and bureaucracies. From my experience, my field was eat up with progressives which is why they spend as much as they do to do what they do, and my experience with education tells me it is the same also at least in the public area. Unions are pretty well left leaning progressives, so without privately funded elections, the progressive have built in support systems.

Can anyone think or a non-progressive left leaning ACORN style publicly funded RIGHT organization? I can't.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 10:34 AM
I want to go flying!
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Joined May 2010
413 Posts
DOW plunges down 180 as mr obama talks about his economy this morning. He was all smiles though, he is a happy man.
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 10:36 AM
Reserved Parking
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The blame lies in several locations.
  • Governement Policy such as the Community Reinvestment Act that started the ball rolling
  • Government officials for the various reasons already identified
  • Lenders, for letting themselves get strong-armed into providing loans to those who couldn't afford them.
  • The people who took the loans because they were too stupid to realize they could not make the payments
  • Our educational system for producing that many stupid people (government, lender, and purchaser)
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Old Jul 06, 2012, 10:38 AM
I want to go flying!
BE77 Pilot's Avatar
Joined May 2010
413 Posts
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Originally Posted by P-51C View Post
The blame lies in several locations.
  • Governement Policy such as the Community Reinvestment Act that started the ball rolling
  • Government officials for the various reasons already identified
  • Lenders, for letting themselves get strong-armed into providing loans to those who couldn't afford them.
  • The people who took the loans because they were too stupid to realize they could not make the payments
  • Our educational system for producing that many stupid people (government, lender, and purchaser)
Well put, this is the post of the day IMHO.
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