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Old Jul 14, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Joined Jul 2012
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I got excited when I saw this thread about 9116. I purchased one last night on impulse because it was really cheap compared to other similar styles. I'm still new to helis in general. I recently bought a Protocol TigerJet, which I found out afterward is really a Syma S107. After playing with it for a few days I was hooked.

I realize the 9116 is going to have a greater learning curve than this super easy to fly S107. But I'm getting addicted to helis and was browing xheli last night and they have the 9116 for $54. I found a free shipping coupon code and just couldn't pass it up. I should have bought two and now am kicking myself this morning for not as the free shipping code is expired.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 11:54 AM
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Canada, BC, New Westminster
Joined Feb 2012
188 Posts
Did you have the tail motor disconnected when you did the video? If not disconnect the tail motor and see if you get the same results.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 02:16 PM
Ain't crashing often anymore
mikefromgermany's Avatar
Germany, Berlin
Joined Jun 2012
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Yes, it was disconnected by purpose.I disconnected one load (rear motor, servos, etc) after another with no improvement.

Mike
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 03:41 PM
AKA, Cheap Chiseler
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United States, FL, North Fort Myers
Joined Mar 2012
1,181 Posts
Over the last 6 mo's I've acquired three 9116's and two transmitters. Both transmitters work and only one heli works. Of the two that aren't working one flew off to heli heaven but was returned two months later. Was on a roof. New battery nothing lites up.. = parts heli maybe. The other has new board installed but won't bind. Red lite flashes at that 'ready to bind speed but won't bind. New board was installed because old board would go from flash to solid red but was not bound so I got a new board.

Can y'all help with any of this?

Thanks to all of you for the help given,

DJ
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 04:11 PM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
one flew off to heli heaven but was returned two months later. Was on a roof. New battery nothing lites up..

The other has new board installed but won't bind. Red lite flashes at that 'ready to bind speed but won't bind. New board was installed because old board would go from flash to solid red but was not bound so I got a new board.
The roofer may be a corroded ON/OFF switch. Spray with contact cleaner or try switching ON/OFF a dozen times.

New board - try binding very quickly and various distances between transmitter and helicopter. If you haven't done it before, bind the good DH9116 to the other transmitter to see what a new binding is like.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 04:50 PM
AKA, Cheap Chiseler
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United States, FL, North Fort Myers
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by Ribble View Post
The roofer may be a corroded ON/OFF switch. Spray with contact cleaner or try switching ON/OFF a dozen times.

New board - try binding very quickly and various distances between transmitter and helicopter. If you haven't done it before, bind the good DH9116 to the other transmitter to see what a new binding is like.
The roofers nose and tail lite work but no red lite. The New board still won't bind. I bind up to the good heli, all normal. Should I consider pulling the new board and putting it in the roofer?

I remember you Ribble, youv'e helped me before,
Thank you,
DJ
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 05:43 PM
Tom
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Dec 2011
259 Posts
Found my performance problem - the battery

I've been having issues with loosing power while flying and then it would recover, fly for a while, then loose it again, all within the span of a few minutes. Noticed the battery was puffy and decided since I had two (these are the ones from ebay) and this one had probably 200 flights on it, was time to change. Performance was restored and better than ever. And yes, I use a high quality balance charger w/temp probe but I think 200 cycles is probably the outside limit of these batteries in a high drain application like a heli.

So, if you start getting strange performance behavior, check the battery for swelling even though your balance charger seems to be charging it just fine.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 06:17 PM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
Should I consider pulling the new board and putting it in the roofer?
New board with motors and servos disconnected won't be any different (not binding) on a different helicopter.

"bind the good DH9116 to the other transmitter to see what a new binding is like"

What I meant was that simply power on transmitter and helicopter is not binding.

Binding is making a new transmitter talk to an old helicopter.
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mikefromgermany View Post
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly....
I've bought 3x9116 B-Stock (customer returns) marked as defect for spare parts supply. 30 bucks, cheap enough.

1 came in mint condition, no flaws just rebind and fly (The Good)
1 as expected - beyond repair but still many useable parts (servos, motors, etc) it looks like the first buyer had it flown FF in a wall at the first flight and destroyed canopy, main frame, PCP and battery..... (The Ugly)

The last one is completely mint - obviously never flown because of a little prob.

Without any stick-action the throttle alternates between chosen RPM to max and back. Its no prob with the RX, I've tested 4 different ones, and as you can see in the vid - no changes in the display bar.

http://youtu.be/JvmM7DDe3vk

Don't laugh too loud if you watch me get my fingers in the rotor......

Any suggestions? Anyone with a cheap solution by hand, otherwise this beauty will be cannibalised.



Hi Mick!
Yes, much quicker response with the MSR-Flybar, but it causes a slight TBE on my modded 9958. (Yet)

But there are a few parts waiting in the box:
CNC-aluminum-washplate
modded rotor blades with 2mm steel ball-joints ( to fit for the MSR bones)
MSR pushrod heads
Carbon main shaft

I think I get it done tomorrow - I'll give feedback here.
Mike

(BTW - I think I'll need a ticket to OZ soon - my wife opened the delivered box with the three helis while I was off to work...... Hmm if You buy 7 Helis within a month... I'm knee-deep in trouble.....)
Good find and buy with the 3 x 9116's Mike.

I can't say what is going on with the 9116 in your vid. Obviously it's an issue with the pcb, possibly a fault in the ic or intermittent wire contact or dry solder on a component. Dry solders will make any electronic device behave erratically, because of the variable resistance values the contact makes. This is especially crucial if the contact that is supplying power to an ic relies on variable resistance to trigger certain actions.

Unfortunately this is beyond my capabilities to suggest a fix, as there are just too many things to test. My only suggestion is to test each contact for continuity or re-soldering each and every solder point on the pcb.

If it still doesn't work, you have two choices, part it out or get a new pcb ($15) and try again.

On the 9958's. I've noticed a slight TBE on my 9958's now that I've fitted them with the mSR flybar too, but the performance enhancements far out way the TBE issue, as it really only shows during a hover, which I don't do much of other than bringing it in to land. I've found after I bound the 9x to my 9958's, I prefer the way the 9958's fly with the oem tx. Maybe it's just that I'm not use to the 9x or I've not set the 9x up properly, but I found it difficult to get the 9x to match the oem tx, than to surpass it in performance capability or ability, which I'm sure it's capable of, I'm just not as capable to program it to that standard, just yet. Unless one fully understands what the 9x is capable of, what it can do and how to adjust it, having more choice with the 9x just makes things more confusing and frustrating, and I already have enough stress in my life at present, and flying these heli's is to help relieve some of that stress, not add to it.

So I'm sticking with the oem tx. (BTW, mike, I have a mode 1 oem tx for the 9958 somewhere, as I fly mode 2, if you are in need).
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Last edited by stormforce; Jul 14, 2012 at 07:36 PM.
Old Jul 14, 2012, 07:06 PM
Registered User
Canada, BC, New Westminster
Joined Feb 2012
188 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefromgermany View Post
Yes, it was disconnected by purpose.I disconnected one load (rear motor, servos, etc) after another with no improvement.

Mike
The problem most likely is with the main motor but it could be the battery going on you. If you have another battery try the same test and see if you get the same behavior. If you do, then I would say that the main motor is the problem. I had my heli cut power while in flight and I swapped out the battery and it still cut out once in a while. I replaced the main motor and the problem disappeared.

Mike
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Old Jul 14, 2012, 09:03 PM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefromgermany View Post
Without any stick-action the throttle alternates between chosen RPM to max and back.
The motor is controlled by a switching transistor (FET) on the printed circuit board. For the motor to run full speed, the FET has to turn on fully. The control (gate) may have a bad solder connection allowing it to "float" above ground. The Motor Overload Protection System (MOPS) raises the FET above ground when either motor runs and the gate is no longer clamped at a lower voltage if it momentarily floats, turning the motor on fully. Could be why the motor has to be running for the speed up to happen.

Anyway, a simple test is to bend the FET slightly so the solder connection makes a better contact. Then test with half throttle. If no difference bend slightly the other way and test again.

Solder no longer contains lead. Bad factory solder connections are now more common.

See "mosFets" in photo. Main motor MOSFET is closest to servo connectors.
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Last edited by Ribble; Jul 14, 2012 at 09:11 PM.
Old Jul 15, 2012, 02:26 PM
Ain't crashing often anymore
mikefromgermany's Avatar
Germany, Berlin
Joined Jun 2012
3,623 Posts
Throttle Problem

FOUND IT!

The problem was a cold solder on a connection pin to the antenna pcb. Everything fine now.
(and sold the heli now to a neighbour *gg who visited me to repair his AR Drone)

Thanks for all trying to help me with this effect!

Mick - look at this:



TBE completely away now, fastest reactions to every little stick movement - but a pain in the a.... to make all things work together, e.g drilling new holes in the carbon shaft...
Now I know why the seller of this particular Xieda gave me these parts for free - he wasn't able to mod it by himself.
And for the money.. if I had to pay for these parts it would be nearly 30€, it makes no sense to invest this amount in a simple 9958.
#edit: Thanks for the offer for the mode1 tx but I use only mode2 ones and have 3 OEM for the Xieda and 4 9116-OEMs already.

BTW - can anyone give me advice which settings i have to use in a 9116 stock tx when I want to use it with a Xieda 9958?

Mike
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Joined May 2012
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9116 servos jitters when I power up . Any ideas what might cause this? Still flyable but barely.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jeepdude View Post
9116 servos jitters when I power up . Any ideas what might cause this? Still flyable but barely.
The servo's should make a sudden short flutter or jitter on power up, as they may have moved when you powered down or the arms may have dropped during storage, so when you power up, they settle back to the position the tx has them set to by the user programming. However, if a servo make's a constant noise or the arms constantly move like they are vibrating (jitter) it is from an over excited step motor within the servo, which usually means the servo motor is on it's way out.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefromgermany View Post
FOUND IT!

The problem was a cold solder on a connection pin to the antenna pcb. Everything fine now.
(and sold the heli now to a neighbour *gg who visited me to repair his AR Drone)

Thanks for all trying to help me with this effect!

Mick - look at this:



TBE completely away now, fastest reactions to every little stick movement - but a pain in the a.... to make all things work together, e.g drilling new holes in the carbon shaft...
Now I know why the seller of this particular Xieda gave me these parts for free - he wasn't able to mod it by himself.
And for the money.. if I had to pay for these parts it would be nearly 30€, it makes no sense to invest this amount in a simple 9958.
#edit: Thanks for the offer for the mode1 tx but I use only mode2 ones and have 3 OEM for the Xieda and 4 9116-OEMs already.

BTW - can anyone give me advice which settings i have to use in a 9116 stock tx when I want to use it with a Xieda 9958?

Mike
good on ya, mike, well done for finding the issue. Apparently the mSR balls are slightly smaller than the 9958, so there is just a bit too much slop or play, which in turn delays the input from the swash to the rotor head/blades. It's a constant "cat and mouse chase" where the swash is tilted in one direction, but the flybar is slow to react to the new input, and the flybar initially tries to dampen that input, then catches up. I found a light coating of CA on the balls enlarges them just enough to make a nice fit into the dogbones, just enough to eliminate the TBE, but still enough to ensure the dogbones move smoothly and freely without any excessive play. Of course, you can replace the balls with those brass or aluminum alloy machined one's, but my eye's and hands aren't that precise anymore to do it. I have heard that if you acquire a nine eagle solo pro or bravo sx swashplate and remove the top section from it, drill it out, then cut off the balls from the 9958 swashplate and insert the top of the solo pro swash onto the 9958 swash and position the dogbones onto the longest balls, the swashplate response becomes quicker and crisper and you get more control and agility.



http://www.hacksmods.com/xieda-9958/

Yes, you can bind the 9958 to a 9116 tx. You will need to increase all the end points (EPA) for throttle, rudder, elevator and aileron to 120% and reverse the direction of the elevator and aileron in the programming. The 9116 will give you a slightly better flight distance than the oem tx, but not much, maybe up to 50m, but at that distance it's hard to see the little guy anyway.

Be warned though, the 9958 does not have any "loss of signal" cutoff, like the 9116, so if it gets out of range, it will keep going on with the last throttle and direction command you sent with the tx. Quite a few 9958's have just flown away, presumably back to china, but they will eventually come down when the battery starts to discharge, so my advice is either, don't let it get away from you, or write your name and mobile/cell phone number on the bottom of the canopy, so if it does, and someone finds it, you might have a chance of recovering it later. Also if you fly it at dusk or at night, pop some small 3mm LED's on it, preferably a white flashing led at the anti-rotation point for the swash, above the base of the tail boom meets the main frame, to act as a white strobe, so if it does fly away on you, you can at least follow it and even though the battery might not hold enough power to fly the heli, the led will still flash for a couple of hours after, and the white flashing led will stand out at a greater distance far brighter than any other colored led.
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Last edited by stormforce; Jul 15, 2012 at 07:48 PM.
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