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Old Jul 15, 2013, 08:21 PM
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United States, MA, Medfield
Joined Jul 2010
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Extra turns in Pattern flying and learning more in general

I've been into RC flying for years but have never seen pattern competition or even really understand the rules that much. I like the pattern moves and would like to start learning more about the routines. I had a simple question. I went out to youtube and search on "sportsman Pattern" to try to get a look at what they really like like rather than those arrows in circles in the diagrams.

Here's a video I found --
Pattern Manuevers Labeled, Sportsman Class, Goshen NY (5 min 13 sec)


I noticed that there are a number of turns that aren't named in the maneuvers. So now my question. When flying pattern, can you put extra turns in when you need to do get lined up for the next move?

I noticed a few turns, a couple were going vertical, a 180 roll and 3/4 of an inside loop to come back the other way. Can you do that whenever you want to get lined up or just once to turn around if the next move is in the opposite direction?

Any answers appreciated.

Also, if anyone can point me in the directions of resources to learn about sportsman pattern, that would be great. Particularly videos with explanation that break it down.

I've read the AMA rules but that ain't quite enough to get started.

-l2t
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 08:53 PM
"Get off the runway!"
Da Big_G's Avatar
United States, TX, Hutto
Joined May 2012
516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
I've been into RC flying for years but have never seen pattern competition or even really understand the rules that much. I like the pattern moves and would like to start learning more about the routines. I had a simple question. I went out to youtube and search on "sportsman Pattern" to try to get a look at what they really like like rather than those arrows in circles in the diagrams.

Here's a video I found -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0YpCioUWsg

I noticed that there are a number of turns that aren't named in the maneuvers. So now my question. When flying pattern, can you put extra turns in when you need to do get lined up for the next move?

I noticed a few turns, a couple were going vertical, a 180 roll and 3/4 of an inside loop to come back the other way. Can you do that whenever you want to get lined up or just once to turn around if the next move is in the opposite direction?

Any answers appreciated.

Also, if anyone can point me in the directions of resources to learn about sportsman pattern, that would be great. Particularly videos with explanation that break it down.

I've read the AMA rules but that ain't quite enough to get started.

-l2t
Hi. I am almost as new to this as you. I last month entered my first pattern contest, sportsman class. The "out of box" maneuvers are needed to line you up for the next one. Pick one that lines you up on heading and altitude. The half reverse cuban eight is what I use the most. I have seen that video, and it does not completely follow the AMA Sportsman routine. (out of order).
For a better understanding of pattern, join NSRCA. http://nsrca.us/. A organization dedicated to pattern flying only. Good luck and enjoy!
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 12:18 AM
KE your cub.
Curare's Avatar
in the gutter, again....
Joined Jun 2005
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Short answer is the turnaronds are open, do whatever you like.

The long answer is fly whatever you need to to get yourself in position for the next maneuvure. If you need to start high, do an immellman, if you need to start low from high, do a split S, if you're coming back in the way you came, a half cuban is a good idea. Of course you also need to think in terms of distance, you can fudge your turnaround to ensure your entry is where you want it to be, no one is judging your turnarounds so can lean a cuban over a bit to move in or out from the flight line.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 05:40 AM
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United States, MA, Medfield
Joined Jul 2010
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Thanks for the responses. Can I have one follow question about sequence. Below is the list of maneuvers from the ncrca site (thx DBG). The one thing I don't get is how you can takeoff upwind and there's no free turn around but then you enter the box going up wind to do your straight flight out. Wouldn't that put the box way down wind? Or you implicitly allowed to turnaround, flydown downwind, turnaround again, and then enter the box and do your first straight flight out sequence. The only way I could think you could do it without turnarounds is if you runway starts way downwind of the box. Is the normal set up to have a runway that starts way downwind so when you take off end up in the box once your are up a couple meters?




Sportsman Sequence
Maneuver
Kf
1. Takeoff Sequence (U) 1
ENTER BOX
2. Straight Flight Out (U) 1
3. Half Reverse Cuban Eight (T) 2
4. Straight Flight Back (D) 1
5. Stall Turn without Rolls (T) 2
6. Two Inside Loops (U) 2
EXIT BOX (upwind-free turnaround)
ENTER BOX (going downwind)
7. Two Point (2/2 point) Roll (D) 2
8. Half Cuban Eight (T)
9. Double Immelman without Rolls (U) 2
10. Immelman Turn (T) 2
11. 45 Degree Down Line (D) 1
EXIT BOX (downwind-free turnaround)
ENTER BOX (going upwind)
12. Vertical Up Line (on center) (U) 1
13. Split "S" (T) 2
14. One Horizontal Roll (D) 1
15. Half Reverse Cuban Eight (T) 2
16. Cobra Roll without Rolls (U) 1
EXIT BOX
17. Landing Sequence (U) 1
TOTAL K-factor 26
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 08:02 AM
"Get off the runway!"
Da Big_G's Avatar
United States, TX, Hutto
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
Thanks for the responses. Can I have one follow question about sequence. Below is the list of maneuvers from the ncrca site (thx DBG). The one thing I don't get is how you can takeoff upwind and there's no free turn around but then you enter the box going up wind to do your straight flight out. Wouldn't that put the box way down wind? Or you implicitly allowed to turnaround, flydown downwind, turnaround again, and then enter the box and do your first straight flight out sequence. The only way I could think you could do it without turnarounds is if you runway starts way downwind of the box. Is the normal set up to have a runway that starts way downwind so when you take off end up in the box once your are up a couple meters?




Sportsman Sequence
Maneuver
Kf
1. Takeoff Sequence (U) 1
ENTER BOX
2. Straight Flight Out (U) 1
3. Half Reverse Cuban Eight (T) 2
4. Straight Flight Back (D) 1
5. Stall Turn without Rolls (T) 2
6. Two Inside Loops (U) 2
EXIT BOX (upwind-free turnaround)
ENTER BOX (going downwind)
7. Two Point (2/2 point) Roll (D) 2
8. Half Cuban Eight (T)
9. Double Immelman without Rolls (U) 2
10. Immelman Turn (T) 2
11. 45 Degree Down Line (D) 1
EXIT BOX (downwind-free turnaround)
ENTER BOX (going upwind)
12. Vertical Up Line (on center) (U) 1
13. Split "S" (T) 2
14. One Horizontal Roll (D) 1
15. Half Reverse Cuban Eight (T) 2
16. Cobra Roll without Rolls (U) 1
EXIT BOX
17. Landing Sequence (U) 1
TOTAL K-factor 26
I see where you are confused...the pattern list could say "EXIT BOX (downwind free turnaround)" after takeoff is completed. You just need to improvise (out of box) your return to upwind position for the straight flight out maneuver.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 10:38 AM
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United States, CA, Richmond
Joined Dec 2007
161 Posts
Take off upwind. (1st scored maneuver)

Free pass downwind to check trim (trim pass). Best if your turn downwind after takeoff is wide and puts you about 150 meters out from the runway. Some people do a "procedure turn" but a wide 180 is most common.

Turn around to get ready for 1st box maneuver (most people do a 1/2 reverse cuban 8).

Straight Flight Out (2nd scored maneuver)

You should go to the nsrca.us web site and check out the info (for free - you don't need to join. It's a good idea to join if you are serious about competition). Go to the "Sequences" tab and look at the Maneuver Descriptions (http://nsrca.us/images/stories/curre...scriptions.pdf).

http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/aerobatics/ is also a place to start.

When I was getting into this I saw a video of a guy talking through the beginning IMAC sequence while on the sim. This was very helpful and I'm sure this kind of stuff is out there if you keep looking.

What really got me into pattern were the articles by Dean Pappas in "Flying Models": magazine, 2007 - 2009. No better writing about pattern anywhere! But he doesn't write for them anymore nor are his articles available except for back-issues (which should be available from flying-models.com. Just check with them on what years/issues Dean was writing for them).

Good luck!
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 10:58 AM
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United States, MA, Medfield
Joined Jul 2010
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Hey, thanks for all the info. Those explanations are great.

I'm just interested in trying to make my flying more intentional right now. Most guys that fly aerobatics are are field scrabble the sticks and do crazy 3D as I guess that's in right now. But I want to start getting in the habit of making my plane to exactly what I want. I figure starting with some of the sportsman pattern moves is a good place to start. I have no idea if I'd ever be interested in competition or if there are any around my area (Mass). We'll see after a year of practice.

-l2t
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 12:00 PM
"Get off the runway!"
Da Big_G's Avatar
United States, TX, Hutto
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
Hey, thanks for all the info. Those explanations are great.

I'm just interested in trying to make my flying more intentional right now. Most guys that fly aerobatics are are field scrabble the sticks and do crazy 3D as I guess that's in right now. But I want to start getting in the habit of making my plane to exactly what I want. I figure starting with some of the sportsman pattern moves is a good place to start. I have no idea if I'd ever be interested in competition or if there are any around my area (Mass). We'll see after a year of practice.

-l2t
Pattern flying will make you a better pilot...I am getting nice comments on my flying from the others at the flying field. Don't need to wait too long to compete after starting to practice pattern...if you're a good learner you will progress quickly, if you put the time in. I can't wait for my next contest!
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 12:20 PM
Advocating for RC Aviation
USA, NJ, Phillipsburg
Joined Jul 2010
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There are pattern pilots in Mass and upstate NY too. There is a contest near Oneida next month if you are interested in coming to watch or fly a little, just pm me. Meanwhile, straight & level is a great place to start. Fly for a bit with wings level then pull up into a 45 deg line: see if the model continued on heading or started an unwanted turn. This basic skill will get you far (still working on it myself) so you can start working on that if you are comfortable. Just a thought.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 02:43 PM
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Toowoomba, QLD, AUSTRALIA
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That's a "Sportsmen" schedule??

I'm pretty sure I'm seeing turnaround maneuvers (#3,#5,#8,#10,#13,#15) in that, so it doesn't look like every change of direction is free.

That's a high workload for anyone new to pattern. Personally I'd recomend that you should ignore the turnarounds and focus on performing the "centre" maneuvers (#4,#6,#7,#9,#11,#12,#14,#16) positioned correctly in the centre of your flightline.

Once you can perform your loops, rolls, stall turns and cuban's properly in the centre of your flightline then half the battle is won and during this time you can sort out any trim issues with your plane so that when you do start flying the turnarounds you aren't fighting a badly flying airplane.
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 01:21 PM
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I don't know the difference between IMAC and other types of patterns but I really like these videos as the images are zoomed-in and clear and the notation is shown right before each move..

Basic 2013 (2 min 50 sec)


Sportsman-2012 (3 min 9 sec)
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 01:22 PM
"Get off the runway!"
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United States, TX, Hutto
Joined May 2012
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Nice flying in those videos..really illustrates the size, altitude and speed. Different routine and maneuvers than AMA Sportsman, but it gives you the general idea what to shoot for. When you practice, be sure to do them both ways...right to left and left to right.
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 02:51 PM
Advocating for RC Aviation
USA, NJ, Phillipsburg
Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
I don't know the difference between IMAC and other types of patterns...
In a nutshell...

IMAC is the special interest group that relates to contests conducted under AMA Scale Aerobatics (SA) rules.

NSRCA is the special interest group that relates to contests conducted under AMA Model Aerobatics (MA) rules. NSRCA members also fly the FAI F3A class at most contests.

All of the above are forms of precision aerobatics competition flown with RC aircraft. While some maneuver definitions may differ, all are constructed of line and loop segments, and a few other kinds of maneuvers where models depart controlled flight.

IMAC models full-scale IAC aerobatics, hence the SA rule set. NSRCA and FAI F3A are open to scale and non-scale models as long as they are within the size and weight limits, in general, no more than 2m in any dimension and 5kg/11lbs or there abouts. There are interesting cultural differences between groups but all are attempting precision aerobatics and that is where the joy of accomplishment lies: we like to draw lines and curves in the sky, interrupted by the occasional spin or snap roll!

Precision aerobatic practice can make you a better pilot, if you enjoy this kind of flying, while striving for perfection. The best way to get started is to come out to a contest, see and meet the pilots who can help you save lots of time and money learning the drill. They are some of the most helpful people I have met in my life!
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Old Jul 19, 2013, 02:05 AM
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FAI F3A is the same all over the world (but the program is changed every year or two). "Below" that, there is a variety of more Beginner and Intermediate -friendly classes. What exactly those are depends on where you are.

Here, the beginner class is called Sport, and it is similar to F3A in that it totally consists of center maneuvers and end maneuvers that get scores. In that class, you can fly any safe model aircraft - and the use of all-out latest-and-greates pattern ships is frowned upon.
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Old Jul 27, 2013, 03:27 PM
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Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjr_93tz View Post
That's a "Sportsmen" schedule??

I'm pretty sure I'm seeing turnaround maneuvers (#3,#5,#8,#10,#13,#15) in that, so it doesn't look like every change of direction is free.

That's a high workload for anyone new to pattern. Personally I'd recomend that you should ignore the turnarounds and focus on performing the "centre" maneuvers (#4,#6,#7,#9,#11,#12,#14,#16) positioned correctly in the centre of your flightline.

Once you can perform your loops, rolls, stall turns and cuban's properly in the centre of your flightline then half the battle is won and during this time you can sort out any trim issues with your plane so that when you do start flying the turnarounds you aren't fighting a badly flying airplane.
Yes sir,
That is the current Sportsman AMA sequence. It is turnaround. There are only turnaround sequences in AMA Pattern.

My first contest was a non-turnaround Classic pattern contest in Chicago in 2010. It was a very good introduction to Pattern and I learned a lot. Even though the turnarounds were free, they were nearly the same maneuvers as are integrated into the Sportsman AMA sequence. After some time and effort either sequences can be learned by a determined R/C pilot. Especially if that pilot has learned the typical basic aerobatic maneuvers.

I write this mainly for Learn2turn, he seems pretty determined, and able to fly well enough to benefit greatly from a good flying model and a contest environment with lots of opportunities for expert advice from contest pilots calling and coaching him.

I benefitted greatly and advise a contest this season, Learn2turn.

Chris...
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