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Old Nov 27, 2013, 12:19 AM
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Providence, RI, USA
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The future of the 1 cell Lipo planes

I was thrilled with the introduction of all the RTF 1 cell lipo airplanes as I could not have imagined this when I struggled and failed to complete the build of my Wespe kit many years ago.
I am amazed by the performance and simplicity of both my Champ and Night Vapor but have been getting less impressed with the performance of my SU-26 and SU-26xp airplanes. I am wondering if the single cell performance aircraft have reached their potential and cannot ever compete with the 2 cell lipo planes and the new standard has become 2 lipo cells.
I am curious to hear feedback on if there will be an increase in performance with 1 lipo cell or the new standard will be 2 lipo cells.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 07:08 AM
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I R Irv's Avatar
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If a 1-cell brushless gearbox is ever mass produced we'll see a real increase in performance. As of now it's up to us.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 07:20 AM
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2 cell just makes it easier to get the power out of the battery pack. To get more power would mean heavier packs.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 08:02 AM
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There are even some 3 cell planes sneaking in to take part of the um market. The extra voltage just makes everything better. You just don't have much headroom with single cell voltage. It's so easy to drag it down to nothing.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 09:59 AM
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the 1s planes will probably always be for indoor use, vapors, as3xtras, ect.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 12:46 PM
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1S is 'Fine' imo. A switchover to BL power will substantially increase performance sans the PITA and noises of a gearbox.
Only the RX board electronics need updating.. some already are now... like the later Flyzone ones :-)
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bare View Post
1S is 'Fine' imo. A switchover to BL power will substantially increase performance sans the PITA and noises of a gearbox.
Only the RX board electronics need updating.. some already are now... like the later Flyzone ones :-)
I'm no expert for sure, but not sure about this - seems as though those in the know have pretty well settled on that there are currently no 1 cell brushless no gearbox setups out there that match the brushed/gearbox setups we currently have. It might happen down the line, but there are physical and electrical limitations that might prevent it from ever being practical. Just so much you can do with 3.7v.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 01:30 PM
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Eugene, Oregon
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Ultra Micro Brushed Motor 8.5mm x 23mm by E-flite

lots of life left in 1s

Edit: just posted couple 1s beauties in ask21 flying far into the future
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Last edited by elvill; Nov 28, 2013 at 12:07 AM.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bare View Post
1S is 'Fine' imo. A switchover to BL power will substantially increase performance sans the PITA and noises of a gearbox.
With present day technology it is very difficult to build a brushless motor with low enough Kv and adequate power output on a 1S system to drive a prop compatible with the Um aircraft..

There is just too much resistance in the motor windings.

This means that to go brushless on 1S, a gearbox will still be necessary for adequate performance.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 01:43 PM
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Perhaps.. But typical micro props are often wayyy overscale as well.
A few have found the HK 5 grammer to be a powerhouse on the late Cox warbirds
Here are a few candidates
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_3_1g_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_2000kv.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ner_Motor.html

The Hex 5 grammer can do a 5x3 handily likely bigger. But is it too heavy?
Certainly one could try to hunt up more that may be more model specific/suitable
Or then, as you say: fit a 10 or 12 mm Inrunner to a 'decent' gearbox.
Point being that IS ain't dying Just brushed versions may be at an end

1S ESC's:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Version_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._3A_Mi_3A.html
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 10:59 PM
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The tiny 1 cell brushed motors did not last long. The tiny 1 cell batteries the same.
2 cell brushless airplanes are wonderful.
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Old Nov 29, 2013, 06:59 PM
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Looked at the Duet today. Those familiar already know its 1cell,direct drive, twin prop, differential thrust, elevator. If I wasn't "Brushophobic", it would have got my $60.
Apparently, its a great flyer. Haven't read about motor burnout on them, but assuming the eventuality, its innards would be harvested for a pusher install or build. The motors would be surface mounted for easy swaps, perhaps this 23mm variant? Basically, an old school AH/ITC format, with an elevator. Or maybe a delta with motors on the elevator, diff-thrust vectoring ? Or a canard, or both?
Sounds like fun experimenting, but also quite an involved process. And even after all that, it still wouldn't have the elevon control I would want.
Long story somewhat shortened: When the full-house 1cell DeltaRay is released, my Brushophobia will be overcome, and it can take my $100. Meantime, I avoided the whole 1cell gearbox thing because burnout complaints seemed to be more frequent in them than in their AH/ITC precursors, which were already frequent enough.
When the UM DeltaRay, and the pushers, do come out, if they're as small as , say, the AH F-18, I'd pay $120.
Incidentally, today my $60 went to an Aircore airframe for a 2cell brushless system, that will cost another $60, again $120.
I hope the future of 1cell lipo planes includes me putting my $ where my words are.
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Old Nov 29, 2013, 07:36 PM
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United States, WI, Fond du Lac
Joined Mar 2013
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1S is alive and we'll

I love my 1S um war birds from HH. The performance with an upgrade to the MSRX motor is great. The planes are small and light and will tolerate some rough landings.

Brushed motors require lubrication. If they are lubricated periodically they perform for several flying seasons. It then takes $10 to replace the motor. For people who are hobbyists that can work on their planes the combination of performance and cost is exceptional.

For others that are not as capable of repowering planes I agree that 2S brushless May be the way to go.
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Old Nov 29, 2013, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airfoil'd View Post
......When the UM DeltaRay, and the pushers, do come out, if they're as small as , say, the AH F-18, I'd pay $120.........
I hope the future of 1cell lipo planes includes me putting my $ where my words are.
What size is the AH F-18?
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Old Nov 29, 2013, 10:34 PM
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...."challenging"..

AH: AirHogs. A search should easily yeild the size . I will post measurements later, my AH F-18 is in another building here. For now, its a little bigger than the earlier AH planes, if that helps.
Basically, as good as the current Hobby grade 1cell planes are, they are bigger than the Toy grade 1cell planes were that "Micro" used to refer to. And the planes on that slippery slope are getting bigger, like these Aircore planes. It would just be nice to see "Micro" pushed to stay small, or get smaller, instead of becoming a watered down term. Even if that means brushed motors.

edit:AH F-18 (approx)wingspan:11,3/8" length 14,1/2")
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