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Old May 24, 2016, 07:05 PM
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Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Avionik D16 (F5D)

I received notice in the mail the other day that a package was waiting for me to pickup at the post office. I checked the tracking number and it was from Russia. I wasn't expecting anything from Russia, so I went to the post office the next day and the lady brings out this long, skinny box - about the size of an F5D airplane!

I was pretty sure I knew right away what it was; I recently heard Sergey Sabokin was producing a new F5D plane and that must have been it.

I couldn't resist, so I took a long lunch to get home to open the box. Holy frajoles! A frikkin' free airplane!!!

I thanked Sergey right away, but am not quite sure of the gesture. I'm not a front-running F5D pilot (though I promise my pylon skills have improved immensely since just before the US Team Trials last fall).

I plan to use this Mega 16/35/1.5R (2700kV) with KPG 5.2:1 gear box. I picked it for my BBR Saw props (though Marcel's prop is shown in the image).

The wing is filled with foam, therefore the aileron servo wires are preinstalled. I'll have to do a little soldering or use my Hansen Hobbies crimpers.

The fuse is very long and the wing span is pretty long too.

Span - 55.1" [1400mm]
Length -
Total Area - 15.85 dm2 (calculated by FAI weight specified by Sergey)
Max FAI Weight - 1030g
Recommended C.G.: 48 - 50mm

Fuse: 73.1g
Wing: 250.8g
Tail (combined): 15.3g

From Sergey:
D16 is the "transitional version" with new airfoil of the wing and fuselage for enlarged problem-free placement of the various on-board components. Maximum take-off weight 1030g. On first flights CG 48-50 mm. Dispose of the model you want. If you use heavy (>220g) motors, boldly make your nose shorter. I'm sure that the flight this model will be especially comfortable for you.

I have a couple of other projects ahead of this D16 I'm committed to, but here are a few quick images and some data.

Stay tuned for more details when I get into the build.

Tim
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Old May 24, 2016, 08:27 PM
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I'm probably dating myself but weren't the D05/06 series 15.5 dm2 total (14.0 wing + 1.5 tail). Your pic looks like the D16 wing is slightly larger than the classic bat tips, but maybe camera perspective or stab is smaller?

Gosh I remember starting F5D with Avionik D99's on NiCds: 11.5 dm2 when 75 g/dm2 was the loading. Every launch was an adventure. Other fond memories like 2AM hotel room gram shaving sessions before for model check compliancy. You kids got it so easy these days!
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Old May 24, 2016, 10:25 PM
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Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Hi ptxman.

Thanks for your comments. Nope, you're seeing it right - the D16 has a longer span than the D06 - by about 3".

Yea, we got it easy. Great, then you can tell me what motor and gear ratio to use on my BBR prop and what motor and gear ratio to use on my Marcel prop and what batteries to use - 1500mAh or 1800mAh and what temp to heat (or cool) them to - and oh yea, I'd like all of the above for varying weather conditions too - that'd be great!

And finally, which plane should I choose? The Rook or the Avionik D06 or the Avionik D16 or the Dominator?

I know you're kidding, but the work is almost overwhelming. Yes, though, all the equipment (planes, batteries and radio gear) is reliable.

Tim
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Old May 24, 2016, 11:07 PM
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I don't envy you. Watt limiters were a welcome battery pack level-izer, but the technology & energy management side has gotten amped up significantly. FAI still equates to Find Additional Income

What's the foam fill all about do you think? Structural? Aerodynamics? Has that feature extended into Avionik's F5B side as well? Does it seem like the 2-part expanding stuff density wise or something more rigid?

I've always had a theory that pylon & other HP airfoils were probably capable of distorting in real life conditions that carrying 6 decimal places on theoretical section coordinates & hair splitting Cl-Cd polar curves was probably more wishful thinking. Maybe its '3D glue' to keep the surface skins 100% conformed to the mold shape as much as possible? Interesting stuff & good luck!
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Old May 24, 2016, 11:54 PM
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Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Hi ptxman.

I don't mind the Watt limiters. I think the power/speed has to be regulated some way. And this way there are no restrictions on anything else (other than minimum and maximum weight and number of LiPo cells). This makes the possibilities virtually endless encouraging the pilot to learn. If you're stuck like I first was, just copy what has already been proven (Neu 1115/2.5D 2100kV with APC prop 1800mAh LiPo) and you'll be close enough to be competitive.

Yea, that foam in the wing is crazy. If you could see the wing first-hand you'd see there's a slight "reflex" in the trailing edge of the wing.

I bet the foam is to maintain the wing's shape and form during all phases/loads of the flight envelope. Probably adds strength too like a shear web lining the entire inside of the wing.

Going to be fun digging out the foam to get at those wires for connecting the servos, but I'll document it all.

I'd hazard a guess that Sergey is using that on the new F5B planes too - I believe there was a new release of one of those too.

Tim
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Old May 25, 2016, 05:24 AM
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Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Tinkering with the horizontal and vertical stab and the elevator pushrod. Going to go with 4.5mm CF pushrod and K&S .047" music wire. The rods for the tail parts are 2mm, but I had to turn it down a bit...

Tim
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Old May 25, 2016, 05:29 AM
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Cheers for those pics Tim. Still need to build mine, so those are quite usefull. I'll be interested to see how you mount the servo's. And when ready, to hear how it compares to the D06 and Dominator.

Have fun building,
Gerben
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Old May 25, 2016, 05:36 AM
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Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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10-4 Gerben!

Yes, cutting the bottom wing skin for the aileron servos (and connecting the servos to the wires) is on my mind. My plan at the moment is to make a template to mark the square servo hatch cutouts and cut as shallow as possible into the skin only. Then carefully extract the foam from that area which will hopefully expose enough servo wire that I can work with to connect to the servos. I suppose I'll have to figure out which wires is which so I can connect them correctly at the other end.

I don't think it will be much of a problem, will just take a skilled touch I think.

Tim
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Old May 26, 2016, 10:32 PM
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Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Tinkering with the radio tray.

I used this removable tray with my very first F5D plane in my StratAir Viper. I also use it in my Rook and in my Dominators. It's very convenient if you ever have to access anything on the tray which is just about the entire radio system less the aileron servos in the wing. Only the fuselage has to be large enough to accommodate a tray. Marking the holes accurately is important for positioning the tray precisely where you intend and to get the tray level in the fuselage.

I first inserted the elevator pushrod down through the fuselage to discover that the front of the pushrod where it connects to the elevator servo has to be pretty high up due to the alignment of the back of the fuselage to get a straight shot at the servo arm.

I used to use a paper template for marking the holes, but this time I calculated the location of the tray and marked alignment lines on a fuselage stand. The fuselage needs to be level laterally (I used a bubble level across the fuselage at the wing saddle).

The images were captured after I had already drilled the holes, but you can still get the idea from the procedure.

I use the alignment lines on my fuselage stand to mark the pre calculated location of the front holes (positioning the tray 7/8" [24mm] up from the bottom of the fuse). I then mark the aft tray screw holes (about 1-3/8" [35mm] up from the workbench due to the height of my stand). The location of the tray should align the servo arm with the elevator horn for a straight shot for the pushrod and be high enough to provide room for my 2S 250mAh LiFe receiver battery on the bottom of the tray.

I drilled the holes, but won't mark the hole locations in the sides of the tray and fasten the tray until after tail has been glued on and the elevator servo has been connected to the pushrod. That way I can position the tray precisely to center the elevator.

Here's some pics...
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Old May 26, 2016, 11:10 PM
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As usual great build document, is the fuse the same shape/size as the D06? From the pictures I can see that the nose is obviously longer and perhaps the back end of the wing opening is a little more square.
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Old May 27, 2016, 05:04 AM
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Hello savneo.

Thank you.

Later I'll post images of the two fuselages side-by-side. Yes, the nose of the D16 is much longer as is the entire fuselage. Hence, the tiny empennage. And yes, the opening under the wing seems to be more "square." The fuselage seems to be slightly deeper.

I brought the D16 to a pylon race last weekend to show my friends and one of them had a Dinogy 5S 1800mAh pack we slipped in there. However, there was little to no room on either side of the battery for wires. I believe the Dinogy packs have fiberglass plates between the packs, or at least on the outside of the packs all of which could probably be removed to make the battery even a little smaller.

I've been running Dinogy 1800mAh packs in my direct drive setups, but in my geared I've started running Dinogy 1500mAh. I run the split packs (the 2S pack laying flat in the nose up under the ESC behind the motor and the 3S pack right behind that in the wing opening upright). With this configuration and the expanded cabin of the D16 there will be AMPLE room to house the battery.

Tim
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Old Jun 06, 2016, 07:19 PM
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Hi Tim,

Thank you for sharing this.
I am really looking forward to see some pictures of the fuselage next to a D06 fuse.
On my first guess the D16 fuse looks narrower than the D06 fuse.
Probably my 5s 1800mAh packs which barley fit in a D06 wont fit here. Otherwise the longer nose makes geared setups with 2s+3s split packs easy to fit?

Thanks, Sascha
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Old Jun 07, 2016, 07:32 AM
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Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Hello Sascha.

Nice to meet you.

Yes, I REALLY want to continue work and get going on my Avionik D16, and I have a little start as you can see, but I have a couple of other priorities I HAVE TO finish before I can get back to my Avionik D16.

This evening I will try to post some images of the D16 fuselage right next to the D06.

Yes, 2S + 3S split packs (as I use) will fit in the D16 EASILY. Probably could even go 2200mAh if you wanted to!

Tim
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Old Jun 07, 2016, 05:08 PM
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Interesting on the foam-core wing. I know back in the days, a few guys made their wings with solid cores for added stiffness and it made a huge difference compared to the hollow, glass skinned D-99. Harold Konrath was one of him (RIP). He vacuum bagged white EPS foam into the separate halves, hot wired the top off, then joined. Does the foam in there appear to be EPS or more like a denser Spider/Dow type foam? Hard to tell from the pics. Also curious if the airfoil is thinner. I remember we talked at Muncie years ago about the Austrian Mayer wings and noted the higher aspect ratio and span compared to the typical designs at the time.
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Old Jun 08, 2016, 07:59 AM
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To me it looked like a machined (milled) Rohacell core made from one piece per half wingspan.
In the aileron he made a small slit and inserted there ~0.8mm cfk plate vertical. Same before aileron.

Excited to see first broken wings to see how he solved the beam.
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