Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Bill,

I think you were the first (and maybe the last) to order one of these external chargers on Ebay before they pulled the ad. When you get your external charger, can you do a test to see how much longer the recording time is with a given size (mAh) AA cell?
.
I will test it with a 2000 mah Eneloop NiMh AA cell. I suspect it will run longer than I have micro cards.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Fred79 View Post
What kind of battery upgrade could be done to extend the battery life?
I recalled that someone on the main 808 Keyfob thread had tried installing a new lipo cell in the cam. A quick search turned-up the post:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2928

Bottom-line was that a single 240mah cell did not fit well in the case. My guess is that the 808HD is not going to have substantially more space in there.

There are lots of other posts in that thread about adding a port to the side of the case to run it off an external battery. My sense with the 808HD, though, is that it'd be way easier to either use the accessory AA power thing or build your own JST to USB adapter (with + on Pin4 per the research in this thread) to use an external pack on the cam's existing port.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kerbob View Post
Does anyone have trouble copying the files directly from the camera hooked up to the computer? I can't seem to get it to work in U Disk mode. It charges fine with USB, but when I turn it on, the computer still doesn't recognize it. I'm using Win7x64 and it recognizes all of the other memory cards I have just fine. I have to take the memory card out and stick it in a micro memory card reader and that works. It would be nice if I could just copy/move directly from the camera.
No one has reported this yet. I assume you are pushing the power button after you get the red LED when you first plug it in to toggle on the flash drive mode (with yellow LED lit), right? Does the yellow LED light? It should flash once, with USB recognition tone immediately after.

W7 (64) is not the problem (I have the same).
Try a different USB port, and/or a different USB cable.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 03:26 PM
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I connect to my PC and get a red light. I press the power button and the yellow light comes one but its not recognized by the computer. I've tried on two seperate Win7x64 boxes and no luck. I even tried turning it on before connecting to the compy. I've even tried different micro USB cables. As long as it performs in the other areas, I'm OK with the status as is.

I just recently bought an HD Gopro 1080p and will post up a direct comparison soon. I know the Gopro will win, but will it win by $200?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
No one has reported this yet. I assume you are pushing the power button after you get the red LED when you first plug it in to toggle on the flash drive mode (with yellow LED lit), right? Does the yellow LED light? It should flash once, with USB recognition tone immediately after.

W7 (64) is not the problem (I have the same).
Try a different USB port, and/or a different USB cable.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 03:30 PM
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JUST got it to work!! Apparently, I have to push the micro USB plug into the camera FIRMLY. And now it goes.. Must be a micro connection that's a back a bit.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 03:31 PM
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dghutt View Post
I recalled that someone on the main 808 Keyfob thread had tried installing a new lipo cell in the cam. A quick search turned-up the post:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2928

Bottom-line was that a single 240mah cell did not fit well in the case. My guess is that the 808HD is not going to have substantially more space in there.

There are lots of other posts in that thread about adding a port to the side of the case to run it off an external battery. My sense with the 808HD, though, is that it'd be way easier to either use the accessory AA power thing or build your own JST to USB adapter (with + on Pin4 per the research in this thread) to use an external pack on the cam's existing port.
I agree... the HD key cam already has a 250 mAh battery on board, and using the old 808 external power hacks is NOT advised because the HD key cam circuity is totally different, including the battery charge/LVC circuits.

The car charger that comes with the camera could also be adapted to other battery/power supply sources by cutting the cord and adding a 2 pin connector (red wire + and black wire ground). We know +5V supply to the camera is normal from the PC USB port and the dedicated car charger.

We don't yet know what voltage the new dedicated external single AA battery charger boosted output voltage is... maybe the camera will function through the emergency charger cord on less than +5V... perhaps even a single cell lipo?
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 17, 2011 at 03:46 PM. Reason: revised last paragraph description
Old Jan 17, 2011, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I agree... the HD key cam already has a 250 mAh battery on board, and using the old 808 external power hacks is NOT advised because the HD key cam circuity is totally different, including the battery charge/LVC circuits.

The car charger that comes with the camera could also be adapted to other battery/power supply sources by cutting the cord and adding a 2 pin connector (red wire + and black wire ground). We know +5V supply to the camera is normal from the PC USB port and the dedicated car charger.

We don't yet know what voltage the new dedicated external single AA battery charger boosted output voltage is... maybe the camera will function through the emergency charger cord on less than +5V... perhaps even a single cell lipo?
Yes, thanks guys. Actually, I saw that thread on the 808 battery upgrade, which came referenced from Chuck's site. He wrote:
Quote:
LIPO BATTERY MODULES (battery + protection circuit).
Any replacement battery module must have a protection circuit.
Make sure it will fit your camera. Length includes the protection circuit.
My #2 camera 382030 (3.8mm thick x 20mm x 30mm) barely fits.
My #3 camera 402030 (4.0mm thick x 20mm x 30mm) barely fits and 4.5mm does not fit (I added 0.5mm, 4 thicknesses of 20lb paper).
Any battery module over 4.0mm thick will probably not fit.
● 402025 with protection circuit, claims 150 mAh. Smaller than a 402030. eBay 220544906965.
● 402030. Claims 120 mAh. You must reuse your protection circuit. ALLeRC.com.
● This replacement LiPo 240 mAh battery has has been reported to work and fit: HobbyCity. Recycle the little circuit under the tape. This report says that the 240 mAh battery at 5.5 mm thick does not fit in the case.
● Here is a Pair of 200 mAh LiPo batteries on eBay that might fit. These batteries are 4.5mm thick so they won't fit the #3 camera.
● Rotozuk says that this ??? mAh LiPo battery fits.
● How to wire an external RC servo Battery and an external AA battery pack.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=220685092050
Anyway, the big take home I got here was that a battery was 20mm x 30mm and anything over 4mm thick would not fit in the case. I think I found one website that says the whole keychain cam is only 30mm x 50mm x 10mm, and of course it tapers so one side isn't even a full 30mm wide.
Eletoponline posts pictures in the ebay ad of the insides of the case, and you can see the battery. It is a model AM-402030P rated at 250mah (supposedly). Coincidentally, the 402030 model number actually hints at the size = 4.0mm x 20mm x 30mm.

I found a battery of 440mah that has a model number of 652530. Although this may be 2.5mm too thick for the case (about the thickness of a dime), I'm really attracted to the idea of 440mah over 250mah if the case could be slightly modified to accommodate the larger battery. It should at least give a solid hour of recording time, which may be all my 8GB card can handle anyway. At least, I would prefer some type of mod to the case than having the emergency charger hanging off the back side. Just thinking about it, not sure how that mod would work/look, but for me it would be more ideal than the AA emergency battery charger (although 2200mah is really cool and I'd be curious to know how long that lasts).
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Last edited by Fred79; Jan 17, 2011 at 08:34 PM.
Old Jan 17, 2011, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Fred79 View Post
...
I found a battery of 440mah that has a model number of 652530. Although this may be 2.5mm too thick for the case (about the thickness of a dime), I'm really attracted to the idea of 440mah over 250mah if the case could be slightly modified to accommodate the larger battery. It should at least give a solid hour of recording time, which may be all my 8GB card can handle anyway. At least, I would prefer some type of mod to the case than having the emergency charger hanging off the back side. Just thinking about it, not sure how that mod would work/look, but for me it would be more ideal than the AA emergency battery charger (although 2200mah is really cool and I'd be curious to know how long that lasts).
If you look at the picture, you can see the stock battery just barely fits in all directions. So you'd have to leave off the entire upper half of the case with your 65x25x30 battery, and tape or heat shrink the battey to the circuit board. Considering how small a 2000 mAh AA cell is compared to a 2000 mAh lipo, I'd go for the compact dedicated external charger with the stock battery. It would be more compact and probably light as well, plusthe cameras guts are better protected in it's case.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Considering how small a 2000 mAh AA cell is compared to a 2000 mAh lipo, I'd go for the compact dedicated external charger with the stock battery. It would be more compact and probably light as well, plusthe cameras guts are better protected in it's case.
I hear that, and it is quite tempting... You can pick up an emergency charger for like $2 and AA batteries are pretty cheap and readily abundant. Its probably worth a try, so I might just order one for fun to test with. I'm going to be curious about what kind of increase in recording time it gives. One must remember it is 2000mah at the stock 1.5V, so upscaled to 3.7v and it would be about 800mah. Still more than a single 450mah battery, but I'm really just interested in getting the camera to be able to run about 80 minutes. More is just gravy.

Still, my original background was with a gumstick cam: very small, compact, very unobtrusive, and very robust. To add a small cable to the USB port running to a small battery cylinder means my package just got bigger, is less robust/stable, and more awkward for mounting in my application. While many people are concerned about keeping weight down, I'm concerned with keeping size down as well. It may require a trip to the machine shop to CNC a new case that fits a bigger battery if I can't have it my way with the stock case.

And if that were the case (if I were to be so ambitious) I wonder if I could reorient the camera to face the side that has the buttons on it - it would make attaching a wide-angle lens easier.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fred79 View Post
I hear that, and it is quite tempting... You can pick up an emergency charger for like $2 and AA batteries are pretty cheap and readily abundant. Its probably worth a try, so I might just order one for fun to test with. I'm going to be curious about what kind of increase in recording time it gives. One must remember it is 2000mah at the stock 1.5V, so upscaled to 3.7v and it would be about 800mah. Still more than a single 450mah battery, but I'm really just interested in getting the camera to be able to run about 80 minutes. More is just gravy.

Still, my original background was with a gumstick cam: very small, compact, very unobtrusive, and very robust. To add a small cable to the USB port running to a small battery cylinder means my package just got bigger, is less robust/stable, and more awkward for mounting in my application. While many people are concerned about keeping weight down, I'm concerned with keeping size down as well. It may require a trip to the machine shop to CNC a new case that fits a bigger battery if I can't have it my way with the stock case.

And if that were the case (if I were to be so ambitious) I wonder if I could reorient the camera to face the side that has the buttons on it - it would utmake attaching a wide-angle lens easier.
Yes, the jury is still out until we can get some hands on feedback on recording time boost.

A new case with side mounted lens could be "easily" done, though, as far as the camera is concerned. The ribbon cable that attaches the lens CMOS module to the camera circuit board goes through a 90 deg. bend to position the lens on the end of the circuit. If you just run it straight and flat, the lens module would extend only about 3-4mm further beyond the end of the circuit board than it now does, and it would point to the flat side with the buttons on it.

I guess you read in recent posts, My Camera Guy mentions they are working on a new HD cam with 4 hour recording capability. Details unknown, but if they are using the same major circuit components, especially the CMOS module and the video processor chip, they will need about a 1500 mAh lipo cell for power with a 16 GB flash memory to hold all that video.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Fred79 View Post
... On my other two cameras the movie was always saved continuously, so even if you run it to dead battery, the movie is saved. Is that not the case with this current firmware? Will I need to recover the camera before the battery dies and push the shutter button?
Yes, this camera DOES NOT save the file that it was recording when the battery gets too low to power the camera... a design fault that needs to be addressed. It DOES SAVE the file, however, if the memory card fills up while it is recording (as it should).
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Yes, this camera DOES NOT save the file that it was recording when the battery gets too low to power the camera... a design fault that needs to be addressed. It DOES SAVE the file, however, if the memory card fills up while it is recording (as it should).
Hopefully you can indicate the NEED for this to be fixed and MY CAMERA GUY will be able to communicate that need to the right people so that it gets fixed in a new firmware.

Can anyone comment on how much time is lost between two files if a file is written every 20 minutes and a new one is started? If you were to merge these two files together, would there be any perceived loss of capture? I would hope that is a non-issue, and if it is, it would also be addressed in a firmware update.


As for 4 hours recording - you're right about needing a bigger battery, and that means it wont be in a key-fob case, would be larger, and heavier. I like the key-fob size. I dont know that I would want to buy something much larger, but I'll have to wait and see what their form factor is if they ever put it out.

Things I like about the 808:
1) small size, discreet case
2) camera direction can be useful for recording 'forward motion' if bottom is used to fix it to something.
3) ability to remove date/time stamp

Things that I like about the 808HD over the 808:
1) larger more useful FOV (AOV)
2) true HD (not upscaled 640x480), h264
3) Correct aspect ratio
4) ability to run the camera from external power / charge while recording

What I want to see improved:
1) video files auto-saved to flash memory card so if power drains too much recording is not lost.
2) more battery power for ~80 minutes of recording per charge
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 06:33 PM
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Comments inserted...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred79 View Post
Hopefully you can indicate the NEED for this to be fixed and MY CAMERA GUY will be able to communicate that need to the right people so that it gets fixed in a new firmware.

I did this previously, but just reiterated it with My camera Guy and asked if they will be able to do it.

Can anyone comment on how much time is lost between two files if a file is written every 20 minutes and a new one is started? If you were to merge these two files together, would there be any perceived loss of capture? I would hope that is a non-issue, and if it is, it would also be addressed in a firmware update.

I commented on this in a prior post. Yes, there is a perceived loss, but its only 3 secs. I don't think this is something that can be fixed with this minimal camera, other than by eliminating the stop/save/continue record function altogether, which is being worked on.

As for 4 hours recording - you're right about needing a bigger battery, and that means it wont be in a key-fob case, would be larger, and heavier. I like the key-fob size. I dont know that I would want to buy something much larger, but I'll have to wait and see what their form factor is if they ever put it out.

Things I like about the 808:
1) small size, discreet case
2) camera direction can be useful for recording 'forward motion' if bottom is used to fix it to something.
3) ability to remove date/time stamp

Things that I like about the 808HD over the 808:
1) larger more useful FOV (AOV)
2) true HD (not upscaled 640x480), h264
3) Correct aspect ratio
4) ability to run the camera from external power / charge while recording

What I want to see improved:
1) video files auto-saved to flash memory card so if power drains too much recording is not lost.
2) more battery power for ~80 minutes of recording per charge

1) is reportedly coming, as is 2), but then 2) will not be a key fob camera and should perhaps have it's own thread. They might be able to cut back on the video data rate with this camera to about 4.5 to 5 Mbps without significant visible loss of quality, but I don't know if this would require less work and hence less power consumption by the video module and video processor or not. If it resulted in more "down time" for the processors, I'd rather have a higher frame rate than more battery recording time. YMMV.

Why don't you get another stock-sized battery, tape it to the case, and parallel it with the internal one... should give just slightly more than 80 minutes of record time.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 07:31 PM
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Why don't you get another stock-sized battery, tape it to the case, and parallel it with the internal one... should give just slightly more than 80 minutes of record time.
I'm already thinking about that! great minds think alike. I wish I could keep the battery inside the case, so I'm just on the fence about whether I would mod the case to fit something just a _little_ bigger, create a new case to hold a larger battery, or strap a second battery to the outside. I think it may be an easier decision if I could figure out how much power was needed for 80 minutes of video (maybe 90 to be on the safe side).

Regarding the stop/save/continue function to save the recording every 20 minutes and start a new file, what are the chances that can be disabled? I'd rather the camera just saved the file when either
a) the stop button is pushed
b) the power runs too low
c) the memory card is filled up, or
d) a 4gb file size limit is reached (a limitation of FAT32)

a & c work already, so I hope they implement 'b'... and get rid of the auto-save every 20 minutes - it becomes redundant once 'b' works.

Edit: this seems like speed posting, but I just read a review here that says one negative about the new 808HD camera - it over-exposes the center of the image, called 'the flashlight effect'. Its obvious in the video he posts, especially in the last couple seconds. Can anyone comment on this?
http://www.2kool4u.com/stryker/keychaincam720P.shtml
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Last edited by Fred79; Jan 17, 2011 at 08:06 PM.
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