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Old Nov 06, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Hello,
I have instructions,
I was only thinking if it si better to glue blade support in the fuselage with wingsisntalled, checking their angle ( betwenn themselves and elevators) or not .
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ing.enzo View Post
Hello,
I have instructions,
I was only thinking if it si better to glue blade support in the fuselage with wingsisntalled, checking their angle ( betwenn themselves and elevators) or not .
If I recall correctly, the "shoulders" of the fuselage, that is, where the wing roots meet the fuselage, are very well lined up and what Multiplex suggests, i.e. place small pieces of balsa, or light ply-wood sheet at the top and may the bottom(?) of the wings, held together with clothes pegs, or simple clamps, should be good enough to line up the wings on the for/aft plane.

As you can see from the manual, the ends of the pieces clamped to the wings just rest on the top of the "shoulders" of the fuselage. As you suggest, the actual wing dyhedral and alignment between wings needs to be carefully set up, with the wings in place, on an good flat bench, before gluing in the blade support. I find that peices of rigid polistyrene (PS) foam are fine for making up a fuselage support, on the bench. Two identical pieces of PS sheet, cut to the height of the "shoulders" and with the bottom side a true 90, can be easily pinned to a PS sheet base plate with some wooden tooth-picks and some white glue left to set overnight. Try to make sure the vertical sheets of PS are the exact same distance as between the sides of the fuselage, at the wing roots.

You can also set up the dyhedral, using two more identical pieces of PS sheet, also pinned to the base (PS) sheet, at the exact same distance (50 cms, 100 cms.?)from the centre line. You don't have to have a 4m. bench!

Incedently, when the time comes to set up the tail-plane (horizontal stabs?), you will need the fuselage support, anyway, otherwise there is no way you can get this ligned up correctly.

I am probably telling you dumb things you knew before I was born, but, just in case

Good luck, again,

Christopher
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 03:30 PM
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Peoria, AZ
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My early Alpina has stabilizer, bell crank, and fin post installed first. This is logical, for then the wing joiner boxes can be adjusted to fit, and aligned with the stab prior to bonding in place. Long pieces of wood or wire can be inserted in the blade boxes to check alignment with stab, I don't think you will need to plug the wings in for this step. Use of slow cure resin will allow time to check alignment. By the time I get to this step, your model will already be circling to the clouds!! I would post a picture, but our camera is still packed away, somewhere.

John
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 03:58 PM
Life-abstract=conformity
S.F. Bay Area
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ing.enzo View Post
Hello,
I have instructions,
I was only thinking if it si better to glue blade support in the fuselage with wingsisntalled, checking their angle ( betwenn themselves and elevators) or not .
Reading the directions Enzo, that is exactly how the blade supports are to be installed.
To begin,the blade joiner support is assembled and the dihedral angle adjusted by moving the side plates ('cheeks' in the manual).Each side plate must be the same distance from the center to prevent unequal dihedral angles.
After the rear compression stru is installed into the fuselage,the blade support is installed and positioned as required.
The wings are then assembled to check & adjust the dihedral angles.
Then the blade support is lightly glued with spots of 5min epoxy.
With the wings and blades carefully removed,the blade joiner is then glued in place completely.

I think when it's my turn to do this,I will chicken out and use the snap in wing joiners.

This begs another question.What dihedral angle have other builders used on their Magics?
Skies
Jay.
P.S. Anyone convert to wing rods from wing blades?
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 04:07 AM
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One minor point I overlooked and which was certainly not available when my Alpina Magic first became available, was a LASER.

I have a quite simple, cheapo laser level, which has simultaneous, vertical and horizontal beams (90). I think it cost 4,99 or something daft at Aldi.

It has made the "setting up" of wings and tailplane very easy with the Alpina 4001 which I am close to finishing after only 5 years.

Obviously, the first job for this was to get the tail fin vertical, with the fuselage sitting firmly in its PS cradle, on the bench. After that, both the wing-pins and tailplane were easy sailing. As the wing rod is "floating", unlike the "Magic", I did not have the old joys of the blade joiner support......

Come to think, a millon years ago, I seem to remember getting the "Magic"'s tail vertical on the bench, with a PLUMB-LINE, attached to a chunk of balsa taped to the top of the fin!

Oh, yes, the horizontal line of the laser is particularly useful getting your all-moving tailplane angle of incidence (or whatever is the fashionable name now) correct. You do this without the wings in place, lining up the laser across the leading and trailing edges of the shoulder, and tracing a line across a piece of taped-on, balsa sheet hanging down from beneath the fuselage, underneath the tail fin. You then simply measure upwards, at two points, fore and aft of the tailplane fulcrum and mark off your 0 incedence, on the tail fin.

You can, of course, do the "zero-incedence" thing with a builder's chalk-line, but that would be retro-tech.

Happy build. Wish I had the time to start again.

Christopher
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 11:47 AM
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Very precious suggestions!
Hope to prepare everything by this week end!
I will keep you posted, thank you again for your support
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 04:38 AM
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????????
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 09:48 AM
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????????
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 09:55 AM
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At the end I bought an inclinometer..only way no make a good alignment

Update:
- Wing Blade support installed and aligned ( 3.5 degrees each)
- Servo arrived from the shop, so now I start to make room for them in the wing

Now I`m going to by some glass fiber..yeah..at the end I will glass the wings. Balsa components are to weak and already ```signed- damaged`` simply during car-transportation...
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 12:03 PM
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[QUOTE=ing.enzo;23257420]Now I`m going to by some glass fiber..yeah..at the end I will glass the wings. Balsa components are to weak and already ```signed- damaged`` simply during car-transportation...[/QUOTE]

My Alpina Magic had approx 2.5mm. thick, very hard, obeche on the wings, which, whilst not totally "ding-proof",, when covered with (extremely light) oracover or similar, looks fine and is very tough. If (when) you have to do a repair, you can simply fill in the dented areas with a light filler paste, sand down and re-cover.

Don't forget that the A.M. has no flaps, so you already need a fast approach to landing. Every gramme you add (just add up the glass and epoxy/paint combination) means increased wing loading and, thus, a FASTER, LONGER, landing approach. If, at your field, you have a splendid, long, grassy field, facing straight into (a strong) wind, no problems, but if you have a small landing area and want to fly in light winds, I would definitely be inclined to save all the weight possible, so as to keep down the landing speed.

The airbrakes are fine, but you can only bring the speed down to just above stalling speed, before disaster. Furthermore, don't forget that the airbrakes actually INCREASE the stalling speed, as they "spoil" around 15-20% of the useful lift area of the wing. The extra weight of glassing could well push this stalling speed up to where a disaster is inevitable......

I have glassed my Alpina 4001 wings, as it has flaps and Crow (down flaps, Up ailerons) brings the speed down AND the stalling speed. The A-Magic, I left alone, with Oracover, at least 1,500 grammes lighter and the landing speed was still so high that, to enable me to enjoy her on anything but the best of slopes, I have decided (and just started) to fit her with FLAPS, just to permit the "CROW" function and , hopefully, reduce the landing approach speed.

If you are a very much better pilot than I am - not too difficult - or have great landing areas, forget the above!!!

Ciao,

Christopher

P.S. Anyone actually built (AND FLOWN) flaps into an original A.Magic? I understand that the airfoil section just not lend itself to camber change alone, as an aid slowing down and exploiting lift, but how does it take the CROW function? Any thoughts would be appreciated before I spend many more hours on the flap conversion, now under way.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
Joined Dec 2005
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I don't know what is under the film on my AP wings, but they look almost as good as new 20+ years later...

Yes, the landing speed of the AP is high, so I had also thought about adding flaps for landing only. I don't have the best of landing zones, but, in spite of the speed, I have never crashed the Alpina on landing. Perhaps it's BECAUSE of the high speed . So, I haven't bothered. I'm sure they would work: flaps is flaps (is flaps)...

The Alpina is TOUGH! I recently crashed the plane twice (from flight) whilst showing off too much for that video I shot, and the first time it sustained no damage at all . I have finished repairing the boom break from the second time, and the wings have needed no work at all!

Chris
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:26 AM
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Dear Christopher and Chris,
I totally agree with you about idea to keep it lighter as possible and about quality construction of tanget ( wing are quite strenght).
The point is that sloper where we fly usually are full of shrubbery, little rocks, trees and son on. So I don't want to a have a prefect flying model but with neeed to remove wing cover every two or three landings to make some ( minor or not) repair.

Therefore idea was to glass wings with 49g/dm and rudder + horizontal stabilizer with 25 g/dm glass fiber.
Hopefully resin should be at the end less than 200 g.
Final resul, I hope, will be a weight increase of 350, 400 g, so hopefully I should not have an so critical model at the end a compromise between weight and ding-proof surfaces .
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:58 AM
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Those old Alpina wings have got a pretty solid & strong wooden leading edge - mine survived an argument with a wire fence recently - hardly a scratch - would have caused quite some damage to an f3F type moulded plane. Its at the very end of this video - Alpina wings on a Multiplex DG500 fuselage (would originally have had Alpina magic wings) - weighs in at 4.6 kg, so carrying weight is not a problem with those wings.

DG500 (5 min 3 sec)


Phil.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 08:15 AM
Deniable plausibility
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Joined Aug 2008
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Just on a general note, if one glasses veneered wings, the weight gain is in my experience more in the paint than the epoxy and glass. So, if you fancy natural wood with coloured trim, that would be the way to go. Don't get resin in the spoilers, now!
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 08:19 AM
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Tell you what, though, Phil: If you glassed the wings and then put a good layer of carbon fibre along the leading edge, with the same landing approach, at fifty per cent more weight and twice the speed, you could have demolished the fence and done away with the problem for next time.......

IMHO, weight IS a problem, unless landing speed is not and unless you have flaps for crow use!

Cheers, all,

Christopher
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Last edited by doddlepots; Nov 14, 2012 at 08:21 AM. Reason: omission of final phrase
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