New Astroflight motor for Voyager E

3dwanabe · Dec 06, 2002, 05:16 PM

I've had the opportunity to test some brushless motors for Bob AKA Astrobob. The best configuration was an "020" size can (very small and light) with a 3 turn armature. This motor produces 4400rpm/volt which allows the use of the stock 15 tooth pinion.

Performance is stunning, especially when the small size of the motor is taken into context. Compared to the stock motor, my VE now climbs at least twice the rate and still manages to get 8+minutes of very fast forward flight and hovering. One of my buddies flies a VE with a much more expensive Hacker motor. It will be very interesting to fly each heli back to back and compare performance and run time. In the coming weeks I will be experimenting with larger pinions and fine tuning the helicopter setup. I will also take temperature readings and tach the head speed.

Bob plans to have this motor available very soon. It will be displayed at the IMS show in January, 2003. The motor will have holes drilled to utilize the stock VE mount. A "heli" ESC with governer mode is under development. I will be testing it when its ready.

Heli setup:
8 3000 mAh nickel metal hydride cells
collective set to -8 0 +10
normal mode throttle curve: 0%, 50%, 100%, 100%, 100%
Idle up throttle curve: 100% all points
HS-81 servos
GY240 heading hold servo

Fred Bronk · Dec 06, 2002, 05:31 PM

The motor sounds great, and an American option for the motor is nice too.

But isn't a 100% throttle curve leaving little headroom to hold headspeed? Or at least not the norm.

Seeing where you are I would like to check it out, and I bet Jon would to.

By the way, I just got a few of his 3 pin ZL plugs and they are very nice

johntbyrne · Dec 06, 2002, 06:34 PM

Did bob indicate when it may be released (ie, first quarter 2003 perhaps?). I planned on getting a hacker this winter. I have the ESC already. Last piece of the puzzle you know.

Thanks much
John

Fred Bronk · Dec 06, 2002, 08:01 PM

We should know at IMS, January 15th weekend.

JonMann · Dec 06, 2002, 09:11 PM

3d,

are you going to bring this tomorrow (sat)? mine is at the store so I will need to get it too compare.

BTW, crashed my rappy30 bigtime today, was getting a little too fancy

Fred,

BTW, I had to basically set my throttle curves on the Logo 20 with the Hacker b50-20xl to 95% in order to keep it from overheating. also seems to like the 38.4K switching mode better???

-jon

gstew · Dec 06, 2002, 09:27 PM

Tell Bob to make one of these with a Kv of 2800-3300 to run in Eco's and Corona's.

BTW, that motor sounds like it'd be good in a Whisper too!

Later!

Greg in Minneapolis

astrobob · Dec 06, 2002, 11:29 PM

thanks for the update on the Voyager.
looks very good .

we will soon be testing a four turn version
with kv = 3300 in a corona.

hope to have a flight report soon
astrobob

KeithK · Dec 07, 2002, 12:10 AM

I have an 020 6 turn. I thought the kv was around 3600. You have one with lower windings and lower kv? Is this really an 020 case?

Any chance my 020 would work in my Corona? It needs a good home.

tdearth · Dec 07, 2002, 06:07 AM

A few years back I read somewhere in this forum about someone that used the AF .020 in a conversion LMH. It worked well for a while and then burned up or something. His conclusion was that this may not be quite enough motor.
Has the motor been improved, or just a different wind perhaps?
I have both an AF .020 and .050 and was thinking about trying one of them in a Corona.

JonMann · Dec 07, 2002, 07:24 PM

saw 3D's Voyager fly today with the astro motor. very fast, powerful. good 8 minutes of flight time. motor ran very cool. this is a very impressive motor, Bob did a nice job.

Fred Bronk · Dec 08, 2002, 12:54 AM

It must eally have good effeciency then. My Hacker runs warm with a heatsink! Plus the VE like to be lite, which this helps even more.

With 3300 cells, it should get close to 10 minutes then!

3dwanabe · Dec 08, 2002, 01:29 AM

I had a chance to fly the VE again today. After a moderate flight of fast forward flight and hovering, Jon's temp gun indicated 94 degrees F at the hottest point on the motor (the shaft end). The battery was 91 degrees and the controller was at 90 degrees. Ambient temp was approx. 60 degrees. The 020 certainly appears to be operating well within its capabilities. I didn't have a chance to tach the head speed, but it appears to be quite high. What really suprises me is the motor does'nt seem to bog down very much when I pump in full collective. Top end speed in FFF is very fast. More than enough for good sized loops and rolls. Too bad I'm not up to that pilot skill level yet.

One cool thing about electric motors is that they are variable horsepower. Given the same voltage(throttle setting), they draw an amount of current that corresponds with the load applied to them. So even though I am flying at 100% throttle, I am not using 100% of the available power until I load the motor with max collective. Our motors and controllers are most efficient when flown at 100% throttle because the controller is in it's off state for a shorter period of time. This also results in cooler operating temps. As much as possible, I like to have the throttle set at 100% and let the collective dictate how much power I'm drawing from the battery.

Well I didn't get to drag race my buddy with the Hacker. He found out about my hot new motor and decided to check out my helo before bringing his.

My next step is to tach the head speed at hover and possibly make some adjustments with the pinion size to achieve approx. 1650 rpms.

I do not have a Corona or Eco-8 so I cannot comment on how this motor will work in these helos. There are too many variables to consider to make a prediction.

Fred,
If you would like to check out my VE, please feel free to drop me an e-mail.

Attached is a pic of my VE

Fred Bronk · Dec 08, 2002, 01:51 AM

That is great news, but the idea of running 100% is off a little.

At 100%, the motor has no headroom to pull more power. This has been discused her many times.

A setup that is running very good, will need less headroom, but need it it will or voltage will drop at high amp draw and bogging will occur.

For many of us this will occur little, but occur it will.

What ESC are you running now?

boom · Dec 08, 2002, 04:18 AM

Talk about minute collective throw; how many degrees of pitch do you get with those hitec horns?

lanew · Dec 08, 2002, 07:32 AM

Fred,

Where can I purchase the 3300 cells? I have heard of theme, but no website?
Thanks,

William

Dec 06, 2002, 05:16 PM	#1
3dwanabe Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 14	New Astroflight motor for Voyager E I've had the opportunity to test some brushless motors for Bob AKA Astrobob. The best configuration was an "020" size can (very small and light) with a 3 turn armature. This motor produces 4400rpm/volt which allows the use of the stock 15 tooth pinion. Performance is stunning, especially when the small size of the motor is taken into context. Compared to the stock motor, my VE now climbs at least twice the rate and still manages to get 8+minutes of very fast forward flight and hovering. One of my buddies flies a VE with a much more expensive Hacker motor. It will be very interesting to fly each heli back to back and compare performance and run time. In the coming weeks I will be experimenting with larger pinions and fine tuning the helicopter setup. I will also take temperature readings and tach the head speed. Bob plans to have this motor available very soon. It will be displayed at the IMS show in January, 2003. The motor will have holes drilled to utilize the stock VE mount. A "heli" ESC with governer mode is under development. I will be testing it when its ready. Heli setup: 8 3000 mAh nickel metal hydride cells collective set to -8 0 +10 normal mode throttle curve: 0%, 50%, 100%, 100%, 100% Idle up throttle curve: 100% all points HS-81 servos GY240 heading hold servo

Dec 08, 2002, 01:29 AM	#12
3dwanabe Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 14	I had a chance to fly the VE again today. After a moderate flight of fast forward flight and hovering, Jon's temp gun indicated 94 degrees F at the hottest point on the motor (the shaft end). The battery was 91 degrees and the controller was at 90 degrees. Ambient temp was approx. 60 degrees. The 020 certainly appears to be operating well within its capabilities. I didn't have a chance to tach the head speed, but it appears to be quite high. What really suprises me is the motor does'nt seem to bog down very much when I pump in full collective. Top end speed in FFF is very fast. More than enough for good sized loops and rolls. Too bad I'm not up to that pilot skill level yet. One cool thing about electric motors is that they are variable horsepower. Given the same voltage(throttle setting), they draw an amount of current that corresponds with the load applied to them. So even though I am flying at 100% throttle, I am not using 100% of the available power until I load the motor with max collective. Our motors and controllers are most efficient when flown at 100% throttle because the controller is in it's off state for a shorter period of time. This also results in cooler operating temps. As much as possible, I like to have the throttle set at 100% and let the collective dictate how much power I'm drawing from the battery. Well I didn't get to drag race my buddy with the Hacker. He found out about my hot new motor and decided to check out my helo before bringing his. My next step is to tach the head speed at hover and possibly make some adjustments with the pinion size to achieve approx. 1650 rpms. I do not have a Corona or Eco-8 so I cannot comment on how this motor will work in these helos. There are too many variables to consider to make a prediction. Fred, If you would like to check out my VE, please feel free to drop me an e-mail. Attached is a pic of my VE Attached Thumbnails 47.8 KB · Views: 1430

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Dec 06, 2002, 05:31 PM	#2
Fred Bronk Our Daddy and Heli Junkie Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: In Heli Wonderland Posts: 22,564	The motor sounds great, and an American option for the motor is nice too. But isn't a 100% throttle curve leaving little headroom to hold headspeed? Or at least not the norm. Seeing where you are I would like to check it out, and I bet Jon would to. By the way, I just got a few of his 3 pin ZL plugs and they are very nice

Dec 06, 2002, 06:34 PM	#3
johntbyrne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Vicksburg, MS Posts: 867	Did bob indicate when it may be released (ie, first quarter 2003 perhaps?). I planned on getting a hacker this winter. I have the ESC already. Last piece of the puzzle you know. Thanks much John

Dec 06, 2002, 08:01 PM	#4
Fred Bronk Our Daddy and Heli Junkie Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: In Heli Wonderland Posts: 22,564	We should know at IMS, January 15th weekend.

Dec 06, 2002, 09:11 PM	#5
JonMann Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Clayton, CA Posts: 138	3d, are you going to bring this tomorrow (sat)? mine is at the store so I will need to get it too compare. BTW, crashed my rappy30 bigtime today, was getting a little too fancy Fred, BTW, I had to basically set my throttle curves on the Logo 20 with the Hacker b50-20xl to 95% in order to keep it from overheating. also seems to like the 38.4K switching mode better??? -jon

Dec 06, 2002, 09:27 PM	#6
gstew Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Columbus, MS, USA Posts: 1,289	Tell Bob to make one of these with a Kv of 2800-3300 to run in Eco's and Corona's. BTW, that motor sounds like it'd be good in a Whisper too! Later! Greg in Minneapolis

Dec 06, 2002, 11:29 PM	#7
astrobob Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 573	thanks for the update on the Voyager. looks very good . we will soon be testing a four turn version with kv = 3300 in a corona. hope to have a flight report soon astrobob

Dec 07, 2002, 12:10 AM	#8
KeithK What Canary? Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA Posts: 1,394	I have an 020 6 turn. I thought the kv was around 3600. You have one with lower windings and lower kv? Is this really an 020 case? Any chance my 020 would work in my Corona? It needs a good home.

Dec 07, 2002, 06:07 AM	#9
tdearth Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South of Indianapolis In Posts: 2,040	A few years back I read somewhere in this forum about someone that used the AF .020 in a conversion LMH. It worked well for a while and then burned up or something. His conclusion was that this may not be quite enough motor. Has the motor been improved, or just a different wind perhaps? I have both an AF .020 and .050 and was thinking about trying one of them in a Corona.

Dec 07, 2002, 07:24 PM	#10
JonMann Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Clayton, CA Posts: 138	saw 3D's Voyager fly today with the astro motor. very fast, powerful. good 8 minutes of flight time. motor ran very cool. this is a very impressive motor, Bob did a nice job.

Dec 08, 2002, 12:54 AM	#11
Fred Bronk Our Daddy and Heli Junkie Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: In Heli Wonderland Posts: 22,564	It must eally have good effeciency then. My Hacker runs warm with a heatsink! Plus the VE like to be lite, which this helps even more. With 3300 cells, it should get close to 10 minutes then!

Dec 08, 2002, 01:51 AM	#13
Fred Bronk Our Daddy and Heli Junkie Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: In Heli Wonderland Posts: 22,564	That is great news, but the idea of running 100% is off a little. At 100%, the motor has no headroom to pull more power. This has been discused her many times. A setup that is running very good, will need less headroom, but need it it will or voltage will drop at high amp draw and bogging will occur. For many of us this will occur little, but occur it will. What ESC are you running now?

Dec 08, 2002, 04:18 AM	#14
boom NiCd + Mabuchi 550 was da bomb Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: NY USA Posts: 247	Talk about minute collective throw; how many degrees of pitch do you get with those hitec horns?

Dec 08, 2002, 07:32 AM	#15
lanew Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Riverview, NB Posts: 222	Fred, Where can I purchase the 3300 cells? I have heard of theme, but no website? Thanks, William