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Old May 23, 2012, 06:56 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,261 Posts
Okay, what'd you do to it?
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Old May 23, 2012, 07:54 AM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
2,938 Posts
How is that possible! Even if it broke off wouldn't the push rods hold everything together? Did the control horns break off, and the rudder/elevator come down as one piece? There must have been some previous damage.
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Old May 23, 2012, 07:56 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,261 Posts
Has anyone coupled ailerons with flaps?
I'm about ready to mix this in... although it turns just fine without it.
I'm not sure the esc can handle all six servos moving at once... for the entire flight, not just for landing.
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Old May 23, 2012, 08:12 AM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
23,598 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanx View Post
How is that possible! Even if it broke off wouldn't the push rods hold everything together? Did the control horns break off, and the rudder/elevator come down as one piece? There must have been some previous damage.
No previous damage from a ZERO crash history.

The vertical stab rip off right in front of the plastic component where the horizontal stab is inserted and that of course rip off the rudder portion at the hinge point under the elevator.

The rudder clevis simply broke the plastic pin making for clean break sort of BUT the elevator clevis stayed attached to the RP and took out a big chunk out of the elevator and why I need a replacement.

If you look closely at the tail portion of the RP, other the the entire rudder hinge the only other portion of foam securing the vertical stab is that tiny foam right in front of the plastic holder of the elevator.

I actaly talked to another member who said that 2 weeks ago his tail broke off from a inverted loop.
I was simply coming back down from 750ft at about a 45 degree angle so sure it got some speed to it but when I leveled out OR at least tried to level out is when the tail snap off and floated down.

In the picture the red marks where it snap off, the vertical stab and rudder. the rudder broke off at the bottom portion of the hinge under the elevator.

Looking at the plastic holder for the elevator there was little to no glue used on the foam.
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Old May 23, 2012, 08:17 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,261 Posts
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Originally Posted by freechip View Post
No previous damage from a ZERO crash history.

The vertical stab rip off right in front of the plastic component where the horizontal stab is inserted and that of course rip off the rudder portion at the hinge point under the elevator.

The rudder clevis simply broke the plastic pin making for clean break sort of BUT the elevator clevis stayed attached to the RP and took out a big chunk out of the elevator and why I need a replacement.

If you look closely at the tail portion of the RP, other the the entire rudder hinge the only other portion of foam securing the vertical stab is that tiny foam right in front of the plastic holder of the elevator.

I actaly talked to another member who said that 2 weeks ago his tail broke off from a inverted loop.
I was simply coming back down from 750ft at about a 45 degree angle so sure it got some speed to it but when I leveled out OR at least tried to level out is when the tail snap off and floated down.

In the picture the red marks where it snap off, the vertical stab and rudder. the rudder broke off at the bottom portion of the hinge under the elevator.

Looking at the plastic holder for the elevator there was little to no glue used on the foam.
Sorry to have to say this to you but that was pilot error.
I doubt you have crow?
But either way, the pull up must be done so gradually, that it is barely perceptible.
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Old May 23, 2012, 08:33 AM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
2,938 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freechip View Post
If you look closely at the tail portion of the RP, other the the entire rudder hinge the only other portion of foam securing the vertical stab is that tiny foam right in front of the plastic holder of the elevator.
...
Looking at the plastic holder for the elevator there was little to no glue used on the foam.
Correct you are! If there isn't much glue on the plastic piece, then it is all up to that narrow bit at the front of the rudder. Maybe I will pull the plastic off and glue it in properly. There has been a long-standing debate between those who think the tail end of this plane needs reinforcing and those who say it is fine the way it is.

Both arguments are right. If you never go fast or fly in big winds, and only use it as a thermal soarer as it was designed, you will never have a problem with the mushy tail. I like to push mine outside of the parameters the designers intended, so I put carbon rods in there.

I think most of the people who have reinforced the tail did it for the same reason as I did, which was to make it fly better, and not to keep it from breaking. It does fly better, and your experience makes me even more glad to have done it.
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Old May 23, 2012, 09:02 AM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
Sorry to have to say this to you but that was pilot error. I doubt you have crow? But either way, the pull up must be done so gradually, that it is barely perceptible.
I do have crow programmed and now that I know in it's stock form it does not like to go fast I did learn from this.

Call it pilot error I am ok with it, my error was to exceed the planes limitation without really knowing what they were. But having experience this I now know what they are and won't be doing it again that's for sure.

I just wanted to share and get other peoples experience.
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Old May 23, 2012, 09:05 AM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
Has anyone coupled ailerons with flaps?
I'm about ready to mix this in... although it turns just fine without it.
I'm not sure the esc can handle all six servos moving at once... for the entire flight, not just for landing.
You would have to change the flap hinge and add external bec.
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Old May 23, 2012, 09:09 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,261 Posts
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Originally Posted by freechip View Post
I do have crow programmed and now that I know in it's stock form it does not like to go fast I did learn from this.

Call it pilot error I am ok with it, my error was to exceed the planes limitation without really knowing what they were. But having experience this I now know what they are and won't be doing it again that's for sure.

I just wanted to share and get other peoples experience.
I have crow is well, and I have noticed that it doesn't slow down too much in a very steep dive.
I was so worried in fact, it took me almost 5 minutes to get down from spec height.

I think I'll try to increase my throws.
Seriously, no offence intended... I thought it was going to happen to me.
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Old May 23, 2012, 09:18 AM
Tossing planes into the snow
Canada, BC, Smithers
Joined Nov 2011
2,938 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
Has anyone coupled ailerons with flaps?
I'm about ready to mix this in... although it turns just fine without it.
I'm not sure the esc can handle all six servos moving at once... for the entire flight, not just for landing.
That is the one thing I have not tried, because I only have 6 channels. I guess it would be possible with 6 if you were willing to give up same-direction aileron movement. Like you say, it turns just fine. Are you hoping to do some rolls? One place it might really help is when coming in for a landing in gusty winds, and you were fighting to keep the wings level.
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Old May 23, 2012, 10:50 AM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
23,598 Posts
In its stock form, having flap follow the aileron only in the down position is pointless at least to me since the point if differential is to have less down then up.
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Old May 23, 2012, 10:53 AM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
I have crow is well, and I have noticed that it doesn't slow down too much in a very steep dive.
I was so worried in fact, it took me almost 5 minutes to get down from spec height.

I think I'll try to increase my throws.
Seriously, no offence intended... I thought it was going to happen to me.
Along with my crow setting I am able to increase or decrease the throw of the flaps. With the crow on and the flaps fully down I can descend very rapidly.

When first experimenting with crow I would attempt to spiral down and as you say, the plane did not come down very quickly. I have some videos on my youtube channel that show the plane going up instead of down, in a thermal while spiraling and with crow on.

What I eventually learned is that with full crow setting, you can point the plane nearly straight down and it will come down quickly without overspeeding. It's a little hard to make yourself point the plane straight down, but once you try it a few times it really does work, even in a strong thermal.

Crow with little descent (1 min 9 sec)


Crow .MOV (0 min 26 sec)
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Old May 23, 2012, 11:04 AM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
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Originally Posted by freechip View Post
In its stock form, having flap follow the aileron only in the down position is pointless at least to me since the point if differential is to have less down then up.
I agree. It's more trouble than its worth.

If you really think you want more roll, add some clear plastic to extend the trailing edge of the ailerons an extra 1/2 inch or more. I've experimented with this and it works. I don't fly normaly with the extensions though, unless I want to play with some extreme aerobatics.

Otherwise, move the clevises to the inner hole on the aileron, outer hole on the servo to get max throw. That's what I have and it's plenty.

Sailplanes are capable of flying slower than most planes, and at slow airspeeds you will always have diminished aileron response.
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Old May 23, 2012, 11:14 AM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
23,598 Posts
It just took me by total surprise to see the tail rip off coming down not even pointing straight down.

I could understand for example if I had modded my PKZ Corsair with a super hot motor and the plane flew twice as fast as originaly intended and during a loop or something the main wing snaps, that I would of completely understand and never had even brought it up in the forum.

This past weekend took me by surprised BUT hey with every crash I learned something new. Cost of fixing it 10$, learning something new priceless.
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Old May 23, 2012, 11:44 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,261 Posts
I'm going to increase my throws today... coming straight down should be no problem, and I'll play with the throws until I get it right.
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