I have Officially Lost my Mind! Ziroli SBD Dauntless PSS ... Super Sized Please! - Page 2

nauga · Jan 30, 2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcairns

Probably would make good balancing weight for the nose. May as well make it useful weight

I had to add about 14oz of lead to the nose of my 60" T-28 (short-nose radial with similar proportions) to get it to balance. That was after putting a 'Heavy Hub' spinner on and the battery on the nose. Still my favorite scratch build if you consider flight characteristics over 'uniqueness'.

It's worth the effort to build the tail light, and it would be worth the effort to have a nice big scale one-of-a-kind.

Nauga,
live from the drag factory

racingodds · Jan 30, 2009, 01:49 AM

Hope to see that at the fest Bill. Here's a couple of pics for inspiration.

MicroRotors · Jan 30, 2009, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racingodds

Hope to see that at the fest Bill. Here's a couple of pics for inspiration.

Man those to aircraft are very nice! Do you have any dimensional information on them?

What airfoil did they use, and what was stretched?

I measured the Airfoil tonight and it is 3.5" thick and the cord at the center of the center section is 24"!

Before I start on the fuse, I need to come up with an airfoil because I have to change the wing saddle on the fuse. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I am trying like Hell to get it to the fest. I have put all other projects (3) on hold until them. The only thing that wont go on hold is a 1/10 pilot for the ISR club. That takes priority over everything. Otherwise, I will be up quite a few late nights and weekends. That leaves me roughly 90 days to do it.

Bill

racingodds · Jan 30, 2009, 02:36 AM

I'll see what I can find out.

MicroRotors · Jan 30, 2009, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailslide UK

Bill,
I did a lot of research on the foil selection for something this size. PM me if you want some info.

You are not alone, but there is no cure.

Current PSS builds:

Spitfire Mk9 124"

P-38 A Lightning 144"

Foulga Magistar 152"

I have also been drooling over scale masters new P-47 Jug.

TailSlide,

I sent you a PM!

Bill

MicroRotors · Jan 30, 2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racingodds

I'll see what I can find out.

Thanks!!!

cvanscho · Jan 30, 2009, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailslide UK

Bill,
I did a lot of research on the foil selection for something this size. PM me if you want some info.

You are not alone, but there is no cure.

Current PSS builds:

Spitfire Mk9 124"

P-38 A Lightning 144"

Foulga Magistar 152"

I have also been drooling over scale masters new P-47 Jug.

Wow, those sound fantastic! Huge

! Puts my 57" Spitfire (nearing completion) into scale (arf arf)!

MicroRotors · Jan 30, 2009, 01:37 PM

Hmmmm,

I might be able to keep the under belly goodies with retracts at Cajon Pass if I can really go true to scale.

dcairns · Jan 30, 2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroRotors

I measured the Airfoil tonight and it is 3.5" thick and the cord at the center of the center section is 24"!

As I recall, I used a SD6060 at 10% on my B-52 (although actually thinner than that, after you take the sweep into account). The swept wing vs straight wing is not comparable, but it should help you with the scale. If your chord is 24" with 3.5" thickness, that works out to 14.6% thickness, which is pretty thick. I am sure you could go much thinner than that.

MicroRotors · Jan 30, 2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcairns

As I recall, I used a SD6060 at 10% on my B-52 (although actually thinner than that, after you take the sweep into account). The swept wing vs straight wing is not comparable, but it should help you with the scale. If your chord is 24" with 3.5" thickness, that works out to 14.6% thickness, which is pretty thick. I am sure you could go much thinner than that.

Yes I think so to, way to fat.

What do you think of the 6061? I have had great luck with a scratched EPP 60" P-38. It seemed to fly better than someone else Mig with a 6060. (Name of the kit MFG withheld ..)

How was landing that up there?

Bill

MicroRotors · Feb 01, 2009, 12:50 AM

Okay Guy's,

I think I have the wing particulars down and will figure out the details tonight and tomorrow. I also ordered from Ziroli a fiberglass Cowl, Dummy Cast Engine and a second Canopy. I will make a silicon mold of the Dummy Engine, cast a second and add more details, make another mold of that and make a few cast resin detailed engines. Also I will make a fiberglass mold of the Cowl after I detail it up and make a couple of these just in case. The extra canopy was due to the one that I had for years wasn't a good pull, well ... as good as I wanted so I will poor several layers (avoid shrinkage) of plaster into the pre-trimmed canopy, make a silicon mold and then pour several layers casting resin into that to make a more detailed solid master pattern and Vacuum form them myself. I would like to have a few of these handy so I can figure out the sliding mechanisms without it costing me a fortune in "paid for" canopy's.

Anyhow here are a few pictures of the parts I will be getting in the mail. I'll tweak them during my lunch hours at work so it's almost like having the clock stop on my 90 days.

Bill

Tailslide UK · Feb 01, 2009, 09:05 AM

Micro,
Sent an e-mail about your thickness question but got "server 500 errors" message the first 3 tries. I think it went, but not sure. Let me know if you got it (or not).

Paul

TFLG · Feb 01, 2009, 12:23 PM

You don't want to go too thin on the foil for the Dauntless. If you go too thin it's going to make the fuse look too tall. At the very least you need to keep the center section thick, You can thin the wing as it goes out. For that plane a 6060 or E 374 is ok, I'de go with a 3021 myself. Thinning the foil on large PSSers doesn't do much. I've seen them with thin foils and fat foils and they fly pretty much the same. So put a foil on that makes the plane look right. You should however use a sailplane foil. Power plane foils just don't fly very well on the slope.

Try to keep it light as light as possible. Heavy is fine for small lead-sled type planes but heavy just means you will be landing fast and at Cajon and most other SoCal slopes that's a bad combo. The lighter you make it the more flyable it will be. It will need a crapload of lead in the nose. So make sure you make the front STOUT. Otherwise all that lead will just tear the nose off if you land hard.

Big planes are cool, however they fly like tugboats. Larger control surfaces will help liven them up a bit but don't expect them to fly like small planes.

And you MUST put in the dive brakes and a bomb drop

Twinboom · Feb 01, 2009, 12:50 PM

Bill,
When you figure out what airfoil you want, let me know and I will print out some templates from Compu-foil. We can, as you said, cut the cores on my mchine, but you may need some templates for sizing. IT's only paper....

Doug

racingodds · Feb 01, 2009, 03:44 PM

Bill, great advice from Mr. Laird and as far as the landing at Cajon with a heavy.

Have'nt talked to Joe but I know he had to stuff at least 6 lbs in the nose of his 109.

Still hoping for the day to grade out an LZ so you guys can actually use retracts. I was able to do this at Torrey.........(are you drooling?)

Dan.

Jan 30, 2009, 01:49 AM	#17
racingodds just CHUCK it! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ramona Ca. Posts: 1,619	Hope to see that at the fest Bill. Here's a couple of pics for inspiration. Attached Thumbnails 33 pounds of German warfare. 48.9 KB · Views: 236 I think Joe said the P51 will weigh in around the 50,lb range so go Big. 83.4 KB · Views: 241

Jan 30, 2009, 01:37 PM	#23
MicroRotors 3D Toy Designer Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hesperia Ca. Posts: 1,703	Hmmmm, I might be able to keep the under belly goodies with retracts at Cajon Pass if I can really go true to scale. Attached Thumbnails 47.0 KB · Views: 119 339.4 KB · Views: 134

Feb 01, 2009, 12:50 AM	#26
MicroRotors 3D Toy Designer Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hesperia Ca. Posts: 1,703	Okay Guy's, I think I have the wing particulars down and will figure out the details tonight and tomorrow. I also ordered from Ziroli a fiberglass Cowl, Dummy Cast Engine and a second Canopy. I will make a silicon mold of the Dummy Engine, cast a second and add more details, make another mold of that and make a few cast resin detailed engines. Also I will make a fiberglass mold of the Cowl after I detail it up and make a couple of these just in case. The extra canopy was due to the one that I had for years wasn't a good pull, well ... as good as I wanted so I will poor several layers (avoid shrinkage) of plaster into the pre-trimmed canopy, make a silicon mold and then pour several layers casting resin into that to make a more detailed solid master pattern and Vacuum form them myself. I would like to have a few of these handy so I can figure out the sliding mechanisms without it costing me a fortune in "paid for" canopy's. Anyhow here are a few pictures of the parts I will be getting in the mail. I'll tweak them during my lunch hours at work so it's almost like having the clock stop on my 90 days. Bill Attached Thumbnails 28.9 KB · Views: 103 37.8 KB · Views: 120 31.4 KB · Views: 123

Feb 01, 2009, 03:44 PM	#30
racingodds just CHUCK it! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ramona Ca. Posts: 1,619	Bill, great advice from Mr. Laird and as far as the landing at Cajon with a heavy. Have'nt talked to Joe but I know he had to stuff at least 6 lbs in the nose of his 109. Still hoping for the day to grade out an LZ so you guys can actually use retracts. I was able to do this at Torrey.........(are you drooling?) Dan. Attached Thumbnails 35.6 KB · Views: 132 88.5 KB · Views: 145

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Jan 30, 2009, 02:36 AM	#19
racingodds just CHUCK it! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ramona Ca. Posts: 1,619	I'll see what I can find out.

Feb 01, 2009, 09:05 AM	#27
Tailslide UK Go fast, turn hard Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Berkshire, England Posts: 897	Micro, Sent an e-mail about your thickness question but got "server 500 errors" message the first 3 tries. I think it went, but not sure. Let me know if you got it (or not). Paul

Feb 01, 2009, 12:23 PM	#28
TFLG That Freeking Laird Guy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Moreno Valley, Ca Posts: 6,307	You don't want to go too thin on the foil for the Dauntless. If you go too thin it's going to make the fuse look too tall. At the very least you need to keep the center section thick, You can thin the wing as it goes out. For that plane a 6060 or E 374 is ok, I'de go with a 3021 myself. Thinning the foil on large PSSers doesn't do much. I've seen them with thin foils and fat foils and they fly pretty much the same. So put a foil on that makes the plane look right. You should however use a sailplane foil. Power plane foils just don't fly very well on the slope. Try to keep it light as light as possible. Heavy is fine for small lead-sled type planes but heavy just means you will be landing fast and at Cajon and most other SoCal slopes that's a bad combo. The lighter you make it the more flyable it will be. It will need a crapload of lead in the nose. So make sure you make the front STOUT. Otherwise all that lead will just tear the nose off if you land hard. Big planes are cool, however they fly like tugboats. Larger control surfaces will help liven them up a bit but don't expect them to fly like small planes. And you MUST put in the dive brakes and a bomb drop

Feb 01, 2009, 12:50 PM	#29
Twinboom Semper Fidelis........... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Yucaipa, California, ISR Rocks Posts: 551	Bill, When you figure out what airfoil you want, let me know and I will print out some templates from Compu-foil. We can, as you said, cut the cores on my mchine, but you may need some templates for sizing. IT's only paper.... Doug