I have Officially Lost my Mind! Ziroli SBD Dauntless PSS ... Super Sized Please!

MicroRotors · Jan 29, 2009, 04:40 PM

In for a penny, in for a pound!

Okay, I have wanted to do a PSS SBD Dauntless for many years now and I am now getting ready to start it up. I have had the plans for almost 9 years now and I did make a powered version from the plans 8 years ago. On her second flight, another flier was testing his battery voltage on his transmitter and in I spun. It looked just like a scene in a WWII movie. Boy was I hotter than a stolen police car .......

Anyhow, now that I am over the trauma and therapy

... I would like to build one up as a PSS version. I will be making the fuselage into a plug, make a mold and then pump out a couple of fuselages.

Here are the specs from the plans, lets see if you can guess were they came from.

Scale ................ 2.4' = 1"
Wingspan .......... 100"
Length .............. 78"
Wing Area .......... 1750
Weight Range ..... 30 - 40 pounds

The weight range was with power, but "We don't need no stinking power" so I just need to get her on the CG and she will be what it wants to be. It has a short nose, so I need to be sure to make it light on the back end of it.

I have the plans, I ordered a Laser Cut Short kit off eBay from laser Lizard and am waiting for it to arrive. I will be making part of the fuse from the laser cut kit and then I will fill in all the pockets with blue foam and carve out the fuselage. From there goes glass and the usual yada, yada to get the master plug and then make the mold.

I am going to bag the wing and have all those cool little flaps working so I can come out of the rafters looking like I mean business.

UPDATE: ... I have a couple of questions. The airfoil on this thing is huge. It is 3.5" thick and at the root the Cord is about 24"

This is a Nick Ziroli 1/5 scale bird and built with power, it's well known she fly's very stable. I have a couple of questions for all you gurus here.

1). What amount of stretching do you think this plane will need?
2). What airfoil should I go with, 374, RG-14, 6061, or ???????

As soon as I get the Laser Cut Short Kit which should be in a few days, I will do a build thread.

BTW ... I live next to the Cajon Pass and that's were I will Fly and or Crash her. I will try to get her ready for the PSS Slope Fest ... No guaranty's though, but I will try like hell.

<Going back into my rubber room>

Thanks
Bill

--
Thanks
Bill

dcairns · Jan 29, 2009, 04:48 PM

Big PSS.... I like it

I would aim for a bit less weight though...

MicroRotors · Jan 29, 2009, 05:12 PM

Yup ... That's what the plans call for with a 3.7 - 5.2 CI engine.

That's why I need to go light an her tail end. It will be what ever it comes out at but I should be okay if I keep the weight in mind during the build. This plane has very good dead stick handling capabilities so I should be okay.

Inspirational Photos ....

slopemeno · Jan 29, 2009, 05:18 PM

I love the Dauntless. Man, I must have built the Monogram 1/48th scale version a dozen times between 1970 and 1977. You MUST build in the bomb-drop with displacement gear, as well as the perforated dive brakes. Extra points if it makes the raaaaaaAAAAAAOOOOWWWWWW sound on the bomb run.

Tailslide UK · Jan 29, 2009, 05:21 PM

Bill,
I did a lot of research on the foil selection for something this size. PM me if you want some info.

You are not alone, but there is no cure.

Current PSS builds:

Spitfire Mk9 124"

P-38 A Lightning 144"

Foulga Magistar 152"

I have also been drooling over scale masters new P-47 Jug.

I'm Rick James · Jan 29, 2009, 05:32 PM

Chord is pretty fat on the Dauntless so I think you're cool there. A little stretch on the center section and a bit on the tips and it'll be good. RG-14 is pretty standard for the smaller warbirds as you know. I dunno how it would behave on a larger ship but if in doubt I would personally use it. I'd probably do a 12" stretch on the center panel and 6" on each wing giving you a 124" wing total.

I just made a call to a buddy of mine and they made a Ziroli 1/5th scale Dauntless fuse from fiberglass which would make build time a ton less. He said he was pretty sure there was a kit for sale on RC Universe but I didn't verify it.

Keep us posted on this thread cuz I've always wanted to go big one day and I'm a little jealous.

IRJ

MicroRotors · Jan 29, 2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slopemeno

I love the Dauntless. Man, I must have built the Monogram 1/48th scale version a dozen times between 1970 and 1977. You MUST build in the bomb-drop with displacement gear, as well as the perforated dive brakes. Extra points if it makes the raaaaaaAAAAAAOOOOWWWWWW sound on the bomb run.

I was telling Doug (Twinboom) that I wanted to put the Bomb Drop and Retracts, but he brought me down to reality, were the hell are you going to land that without ripping everything off the belly side at Cajon ......

Working bazillion holes .... Hell Yes!

The ... raaaaaaAAAAAAOOOOWWWWWW sound ... just try to stop me!

The sound will be coming from me. Picture a kid flying his chuck glider around the house!

Bill

dcairns · Jan 29, 2009, 05:45 PM

Don't let practicality stand in the way. After all, how often are you going to get to fly it?

MicroRotors · Jan 29, 2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcairns

Don't let practicality stand in the way. After all, how often are you going to get to fly it?

No the question is how long will I fly it on its maiden flight at Cajon Pass before I have to land it in rocks cactus and ???? ....

I might have to put a motor cycle battery in it to get as much flight time as I can. I don't think it will be in the same configuration when I hold it again.

Bill

MicroRotors · Jan 29, 2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm Rick James

Chord is pretty fat on the Dauntless so I think you're cool there. A little stretch on the center section and a bit on the tips and it'll be good. RG-14 is pretty standard for the smaller warbirds as you know. I dunno how it would behave on a larger ship but if in doubt I would personally use it. I'd probably do a 12" stretch on the center panel and 6" on each wing giving you a 124" wing total.

I just made a call to a buddy of mine and they made a Ziroli 1/5th scale Dauntless fuse from fiberglass which would make build time a ton less. He said he was pretty sure there was a kit for sale on RC Universe but I didn't verify it.

Keep us posted on this thread cuz I've always wanted to go big one day and I'm a little jealous.

IRJ

Thanks Rick .. Noted!

BillO · Jan 29, 2009, 06:05 PM

Sounds like a great project -- I love to see builds like this! For a battery, you could use one of the newer lithium chemistries that don't flame and get plenty of run time I would think.

On how much to stretch it, I usually go by the ratio between wing span and fuse length. Smaller PSS planes typically have ratios around 1.4 to 1.5, while full-scale warbird ratios are around 1.1 to 1.2, for fighter planes at least.

Given your specs, the Dauntless ratio is 1.28 (span of 100" and length of 78"), which is pretty good as is. I wouldn't go over a 1.4 ratio just to keep it closer to scale, which would give you a span of 109".

I would second the RG-14 -- it's a great proven foil.

salisbug · Jan 29, 2009, 06:06 PM

Oh, yeah.

I love the Dauntless and have the Skyshark part kit ready for a PSS conversion.

I'll be watching closely.

If you need some inspiration, check out this site. This is the best documented scale build I've ever seen and without doubt the nicest model too:

http://www.tompierce.net/SBD/index.htm

nauga · Jan 29, 2009, 06:24 PM

Doooo eeeeeeet! And welcome to the 'No Fuse Too Fat' club

We've been expecting you.

Nauga,
and his Root Boy Slim LP collection

Mark Wood · Jan 29, 2009, 09:05 PM

Great project, Bill!

Just shove a sub-C pack in there and forget it. The plane won't mind.

mw

dcairns · Jan 29, 2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Wood

Great project, Bill!

Just shove a sub-C pack in there and forget it. The plane won't mind.

mw

Probably would make good balancing weight for the nose. May as well make it useful weight

Jan 29, 2009, 04:40 PM	#1
MicroRotors 3D Toy Designer Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hesperia Ca. Posts: 1,703	I have Officially Lost my Mind! Ziroli SBD Dauntless PSS ... Super Sized Please! In for a penny, in for a pound! Okay, I have wanted to do a PSS SBD Dauntless for many years now and I am now getting ready to start it up. I have had the plans for almost 9 years now and I did make a powered version from the plans 8 years ago. On her second flight, another flier was testing his battery voltage on his transmitter and in I spun. It looked just like a scene in a WWII movie. Boy was I hotter than a stolen police car ....... Anyhow, now that I am over the trauma and therapy ... I would like to build one up as a PSS version. I will be making the fuselage into a plug, make a mold and then pump out a couple of fuselages. Here are the specs from the plans, lets see if you can guess were they came from. Scale ................ 2.4' = 1" Wingspan .......... 100" Length .............. 78" Wing Area .......... 1750 Weight Range ..... 30 - 40 pounds The weight range was with power, but "We don't need no stinking power" so I just need to get her on the CG and she will be what it wants to be. It has a short nose, so I need to be sure to make it light on the back end of it. I have the plans, I ordered a Laser Cut Short kit off eBay from laser Lizard and am waiting for it to arrive. I will be making part of the fuse from the laser cut kit and then I will fill in all the pockets with blue foam and carve out the fuselage. From there goes glass and the usual yada, yada to get the master plug and then make the mold. I am going to bag the wing and have all those cool little flaps working so I can come out of the rafters looking like I mean business. UPDATE: ... I have a couple of questions. The airfoil on this thing is huge. It is 3.5" thick and at the root the Cord is about 24" This is a Nick Ziroli 1/5 scale bird and built with power, it's well known she fly's very stable. I have a couple of questions for all you gurus here. 1). What amount of stretching do you think this plane will need? 2). What airfoil should I go with, 374, RG-14, 6061, or ??????? As soon as I get the Laser Cut Short Kit which should be in a few days, I will do a build thread. BTW ... I live next to the Cajon Pass and that's were I will Fly and or Crash her. I will try to get her ready for the PSS Slope Fest ... No guaranty's though, but I will try like hell. <Going back into my rubber room> Thanks Bill -- Thanks Bill Last edited by MicroRotors; Feb 05, 2009 at 11:26 PM.

Jan 29, 2009, 05:12 PM	#3
MicroRotors 3D Toy Designer Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hesperia Ca. Posts: 1,703	Yup ... That's what the plans call for with a 3.7 - 5.2 CI engine. That's why I need to go light an her tail end. It will be what ever it comes out at but I should be okay if I keep the weight in mind during the build. This plane has very good dead stick handling capabilities so I should be okay. Inspirational Photos .... Attached Thumbnails This is not me Doug. 71.7 KB · Views: 450 16.1 KB · Views: 232 Last edited by MicroRotors; Feb 01, 2009 at 05:24 PM.

Jan 29, 2009, 05:21 PM	#5
Tailslide UK Go fast, turn hard Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Berkshire, England Posts: 897	Bill, I did a lot of research on the foil selection for something this size. PM me if you want some info. You are not alone, but there is no cure. Current PSS builds: Spitfire Mk9 124" P-38 A Lightning 144" Foulga Magistar 152" I have also been drooling over scale masters new P-47 Jug. Last edited by Tailslide UK; Jan 29, 2009 at 05:22 PM. Reason: typo

Jan 29, 2009, 06:05 PM	#11
BillO Firecracker! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco & Santa Cruz Posts: 1,735	Sounds like a great project -- I love to see builds like this! For a battery, you could use one of the newer lithium chemistries that don't flame and get plenty of run time I would think. On how much to stretch it, I usually go by the ratio between wing span and fuse length. Smaller PSS planes typically have ratios around 1.4 to 1.5, while full-scale warbird ratios are around 1.1 to 1.2, for fighter planes at least. Given your specs, the Dauntless ratio is 1.28 (span of 100" and length of 78"), which is pretty good as is. I wouldn't go over a 1.4 ratio just to keep it closer to scale, which would give you a span of 109". I would second the RG-14 -- it's a great proven foil. Last edited by BillO; Jan 29, 2009 at 06:34 PM.

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Jan 29, 2009, 04:48 PM	#2
dcairns David Cairns Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orange, CA Posts: 1,086	Big PSS.... I like it I would aim for a bit less weight though...

Jan 29, 2009, 05:18 PM	#4
slopemeno Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the Alameda gall bladder refrigerator Posts: 5,061	I love the Dauntless. Man, I must have built the Monogram 1/48th scale version a dozen times between 1970 and 1977. You MUST build in the bomb-drop with displacement gear, as well as the perforated dive brakes. Extra points if it makes the raaaaaaAAAAAAOOOOWWWWWW sound on the bomb run.

Jan 29, 2009, 05:32 PM	#6
I'm Rick James AREA-52 So. Killafornia Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern Killafornia Posts: 1,564	Chord is pretty fat on the Dauntless so I think you're cool there. A little stretch on the center section and a bit on the tips and it'll be good. RG-14 is pretty standard for the smaller warbirds as you know. I dunno how it would behave on a larger ship but if in doubt I would personally use it. I'd probably do a 12" stretch on the center panel and 6" on each wing giving you a 124" wing total. I just made a call to a buddy of mine and they made a Ziroli 1/5th scale Dauntless fuse from fiberglass which would make build time a ton less. He said he was pretty sure there was a kit for sale on RC Universe but I didn't verify it. Keep us posted on this thread cuz I've always wanted to go big one day and I'm a little jealous. IRJ

Jan 29, 2009, 05:45 PM	#8
dcairns David Cairns Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orange, CA Posts: 1,086	Don't let practicality stand in the way. After all, how often are you going to get to fly it?

Jan 29, 2009, 06:06 PM	#12
salisbug Scale Nazi - apparently...... Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,765	Oh, yeah. I love the Dauntless and have the Skyshark part kit ready for a PSS conversion. I'll be watching closely. If you need some inspiration, check out this site. This is the best documented scale build I've ever seen and without doubt the nicest model too: http://www.tompierce.net/SBD/index.htm

Jan 29, 2009, 06:24 PM	#13
nauga Don't get even, get odd. Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,536	Doooo eeeeeeet! And welcome to the 'No Fuse Too Fat' club We've been expecting you. Nauga, and his Root Boy Slim LP collection

Jan 29, 2009, 09:05 PM	#14
Mark Wood characters welcome Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: San Diego, Calif. Posts: 18,153	Great project, Bill! Just shove a sub-C pack in there and forget it. The plane won't mind. mw