I disagree about the "red carpet" statement.

We're talking about basic stuff here... fixing their blatant mistakes. That's different than bending over backward for your customers. Danford shouldn't be out a dime, but he also shouldn't be out his time.


Since I started this thread, I've had two more problems with HK items. One: I ordered three identical ESC's. The first one started on fire right away. They wanted me to call in CSI to prove it (j/k... videos and photos) and eventually they credited me. But what did they credit me? I really don't know... it was $0.22 less than I paid. But it isn't even the $0.22 that's the problem... its that they expect me to pay for shipping again to fix their mistake. However, I'll hand them this one... after demanding that they also credit me enough to pay for shipping the item, they did agree to instead remove the credit and just ship me a new one - what I asked for initially. But it shouldn't take 9 emails back and forth to resolve a $9 dispute caused by them shipping out garbage.


Look, I fully realize they are cheap and you "get what you pay for" blah blah blah. But there's a HUGE difference between getting what you pay for and getting nothing for your money. If I order a cheap crappy ESC and they send me a one-time use electric fire starter... that's not what I paid for, no matter how cheap it was. If my problem is that it dies after a month, or it makes my battery drain too fast, or something like that... ok, shame on me for buying cheap. But "cheap Chinese products" is not at all the same as "worthless garbage". Or at least shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by s_mack

I disagree about the "red carpet" statement.

We're talking about basic stuff here... fixing their blatant mistakes. That's different than bending over backward for your customers. Danford shouldn't be out a dime, but he also shouldn't be out his time.

What you are referring to IS called "great customer service" or my term for it... "red carpet" customer service. I've bought quite a bit of things off the net, and I've had mistakes done where the wrong item was sent...I've only had 1 company offer to send the right item first before the wrong item was in their hands...and that was Amazon. All the rest were the same as HK...they want the wrong item in their hands before the right item goes out.

Pls read this:

http://answercenter.ebay.com/questio...Item/900286870

Then you've never shopped from my store... because my policy - and to me its pretty basic stuff - is to correct my mistakes such that my customer is inconvenienced the least possible and isn't out anything.

To me, "red carpet" would be sending the correct batteries out over night, letting the customer keep the incorrect batteries, AND refunding the original price of the batteries as a small token towards reimbursing the customer for the wasted time. That's outstanding customer service. That would be a gold standard that we'd hope - but not expect - to see. Now, HK can't afford that kind of service, I know that. Neither can I. My customer service is a step down from there... I can't afford to be routinely reimbursing people for their time (although I do it sometimes when my mistake was particularly stupid). An I'd expect their customer service to be a step or two below me. Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying for the price they charge that they should be even offering "pretty good" customer service. What they exhibit most of the time is worse than having no customer service at all.

Originally Posted by s_mack

Then you've never shopped from my store... because my policy - and to me its pretty basic stuff - is to correct my mistakes such that my customer is inconvenienced the least possible and isn't out anything.

To me, "red carpet" would be sending the correct batteries out over night, letting the customer keep the incorrect batteries, AND refunding the original price of the batteries as a small token towards reimbursing the customer for the wasted time. That's outstanding customer service. That would be a gold standard that we'd hope - but not expect - to see. Now, HK can't afford that kind of service, I know that. Neither can I. My customer service is a step down from there... I can't afford to be routinely reimbursing people for their time (although I do it sometimes when my mistake was particularly stupid). An I'd expect their customer service to be a step or two below me. Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying for the price they charge that they should be even offering "pretty good" customer service. What they exhibit most of the time is worse than having no customer service at all.

I'm very glad you provide that kind of service for your customers- and that is good CS service. All I'm saying is what HK is providing now for danford is reasonable. From what I've read from others, this is also reasonable. And if danford feels it is not, he should file a paypal dispute. But from my personal experience, paypal is anything but fast. They give the vendor 10 days to responds,...and so on...and in this case, paypal may even rule in HK's favor.

did you read the link I sent? especially read #2
and I quote "Put this buyer on your blocked bidder list. You don't want them back."

Thanks guys for taking the time to respond.
I sent in the report to Paypal.
Now I can only continue to wait...
I still think I should receive the items I paid for.
I can then deal with the long return, restock process then wait for the shipping money to be refunded.
I could be flying a plane while I wait for all of that. I need the batteries I paid for to fly the plane...

Danford1

Originally Posted by danford1

Thanks guys for taking the time to respond.
I sent in the report to Paypal.
Now I can only continue to wait...
I still think I should receive the items I paid for.
I can then deal with the long return, restock process then wait for the shipping money to be refunded.
I could be flying a plane while I wait for all of that. I need the batteries I paid for to fly the plane...

Danford1

Let us know how Paypal responds. It'd be interesting to see what their response is and have something to reference in the future.

Originally Posted by rcalldaylong

I'm very glad you provide that kind of service for your customers- and that is good CS service. All I'm saying is what HK is providing now for danford is reasonable. From what I've read from others, this is also reasonable. And if danford feels it is not, he should file a paypal dispute. But from my personal experience, paypal is anything but fast. They give the vendor 10 days to responds,...and so on...and in this case, paypal may even rule in HK's favor.

did you read the link I sent? especially read #2
and I quote "Put this buyer on your blocked bidder list. You don't want them back."

I did read it. And that quote in particular exemplifies exactly how NOT to treat your customer. I'm not saying you're alone in thinking that sub-par service is becoming more and more the norm. It doesn't make it right. "Blocking" your customers for being mad at your mistake? That's just down right retarded. Unless that seller has something so unique that he can afford to tell customers to screw off because they just can't get it elsewhere (think Seinfeld's Soup-Nazi episode) then that's fine (short sighted, but whatever). Otherwise, all you're doing is sending them to your competition.

There are lots of de-facto policies that were bred from eBay's regime of allowing non business people to pretend to run businesses. One of my greatest peeves... shipping insurance. It has become so common for the seller to expect the buyer to pay for shipping insurance, otherwise the buyer takes the risk, that we see that as normal. It is a complete fallacy. Think of the business relationship from the shipping company (UPS, FedEx, etc) point of view. Who is their customer? Its the one paying the bill. That is... the shipper, not the receiver/buyer, right? In fact, the buyer can't buy shipping insurance even if they wanted to. ALL they can do is reimburse the seller for doing so. However, the customer choosing NOT to pay the seller's expense changes nothing. The SELLER (not the buyer) assumes all risk for shipping when THEY (not the buyer) enters into the contract with the shipping company. If THEY (the seller) choose not to buy insurance (regardless of what the buyer chose) and if something goes missing or is damaged, the seller is still entirely liable for replacing the item at their cost. Yet none of us bat an eye when sellers now demand that buyers pay for insurance. Its fine to build that cost into the price - it would be stupid not to - but presenting it as an optional expense for the customer is just an example of the blind leading the blind into this "new" world of ecommerce.

Customer service in general has gone the same way. In the end, it will come to head. Someone who actually understands how to run a business will begin to compete with HK and the rest of the rabble, and customers will make their choices accordingly.

Originally Posted by s_mack

I did read it. And that quote in particular exemplifies exactly how NOT to treat your customer. I'm not saying you're alone in thinking that sub-par service is becoming more and more the norm. It doesn't make it right. "Blocking" your customers for being mad at your mistake? That's just down right retarded. Unless that seller has something so unique that he can afford to tell customers to screw off because they just can't get it elsewhere (think Seinfeld's Soup-Nazi episode) then that's fine (short sighted, but whatever). Otherwise, all you're doing is sending them to your competition.

There are lots of de-facto policies that were bred from eBay's regime of allowing non business people to pretend to run businesses. One of my greatest peeves... shipping insurance. It has become so common for the seller to expect the buyer to pay for shipping insurance, otherwise the buyer takes the risk, that we see that as normal. It is a complete fallacy. Think of the business relationship from the shipping company (UPS, FedEx, etc) point of view. Who is their customer? Its the one paying the bill. That is... the shipper, not the receiver/buyer, right? In fact, the buyer can't buy shipping insurance even if they wanted to. ALL they can do is reimburse the seller for doing so. However, the customer choosing NOT to pay the seller's expense changes nothing. The SELLER (not the buyer) assumes all risk for shipping when THEY (not the buyer) enters into the contract with the shipping company. If THEY (the seller) choose not to buy insurance (regardless of what the buyer chose) and if something goes missing or is damaged, the seller is still entirely liable for replacing the item at their cost. Yet none of us bat an eye when sellers now demand that buyers pay for insurance. Its fine to build that cost into the price - it would be stupid not to - but presenting it as an optional expense for the customer is just an example of the blind leading the blind into this "new" world of ecommerce.

Customer service in general has gone the same way. In the end, it will come to head. Someone who actually understands how to run a business will begin to compete with HK and the rest of the rabble, and customers will make their choices accordingly.

thanks for the long response. Let's wait to see how Paypal responds. I'd be interested to see what happens.

Everyone who has a bad experience with HobbyKing just stop using them. If you continue to use them after you know what happens there's nobody to blame but yourself. It's really that simple.

yep. Absolutely correct. But dammit... I'm addicted to their low prices and wide selection.

That doesn't mean I don't have a right to complain about things I hate about them.

Originally Posted by s_mack

yep. Absolutely correct. But dammit... I'm addicted to their low prices and wide selection.

That doesn't mean I don't have a right to complain about things I hate about them.

LOL,i had to laugh at this one sorry mate.

I'm sorry but i really do rate HK and until they do me wrong (which hasn't happened in the five years i've been using them) i will carry on defending them,no matter what HK does good or bad you will always get someone not happy about something (human nature i guess)

Most of us knew HK didn't have the best CS in the business but they are trying
hard to sort that out as far as i'm concerned,i can remember reading one of there twitter feeds about them training a bunch of new staff,i even started to read some posts about people saying HK sorted them out,ok it wasn't as fast as they had liked but it got sorted,plus some people don't like it when they ask for photos of the faulty product but from what i can gather,it's just so they can use it if they have to claim them selves off of shipping companies insurance or what ever,but do we really think HK should just believe everyone that says they have a faulty part,come on if they did every scam artist would be on them straight away or the people who don't know what they are doing,like i'll put this 20 amp esc in this plane even though i know it needs a 30amp one,the 20 amp one is cheaper,it then fails and the person then wants to try and get there money back and so on.

I think HK have done a damn fine job in looking after us boys and girls who are into this hobby,they have shown us that we can enjoy it at more than half the price other online/LHS want to charge us,ok i know they are not in it just to make us happy but to make money but if it hadn't of been for them i for one would of left this hobby years ago,as the prices these other online/LHS want to charge are way over what i can afford or would be willing to pay.

Originally Posted by s_mack

yep. Absolutely correct. But dammit... I'm addicted to their low prices and wide selection.

That doesn't mean I don't have a right to complain about things I hate about them.

That is true. When things go right its wonderful when things don't go as planned it can be frustrating. For frugal people it's hard to pass up those prices. I still can't figure out why the HZ super cub is $160 for what you get

Originally Posted by Babadush

That is true. When things go right its wonderful when things don't go as planned it can be frustrating. For frugal people it's hard to pass up those prices. I still can't figure out why the HZ super cub is $160 for what you get

As a complete newbie, I would of loved to pay $160 for a good flying plane like the HZ super cub.

As a newbie, I bought the beginAir from parkflyers.com and that thing was a total piece of junk and it costed me $170

Long story short, bad radio, bad servos...I called the guy and after accusing me of being a newbie that crashed the plane, he reluctantly sent out a replacement servo. Turns out he sent me junk... I ended up having to buy all new real expensive servos...$23 a piece servos and a new Tx/Rx before the plane flew decent. I ended up spending $170 for plane, $100 for 4 servos, $200 Tx, $50 rx. Total of $520, Even if you took out the Tx/rx, I still spent $270 for a plane. This was before I knew HK.

So nowadays, I know better and I thank HK every time I buy something.
Here's the looooong version

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...r#post11181260

Originally Posted by startazz

LOL,i had to laugh at this one sorry mate.

You don't have to be sorry for laughing at a joke. That's the point.

Originally Posted by rcalldaylong

As a complete newbie, I would of loved to pay $160 for a good flying plane like the HZ super cub.

As a newbie, I bought the beginAir from parkflyers.com and that thing was a total piece of junk and it costed me $170

Long story short, bad radio, bad servos...I called the guy and after accusing me of being a newbie that crashed the plane, he reluctantly sent out a replacement servo. Turns out he sent me junk... I ended up having to buy all new real expensive servos...$23 a piece servos and a new Tx/Rx before the plane flew decent. I ended up spending $170 for plane, $100 for 4 servos, $200 Tx, $50 rx. Total of $520, Even if you took out the Tx/rx, I still spent $270 for a plane. This was before I knew HK.

So nowadays, I know better and I thank HK every time I buy something.
Here's the looooong version

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...r#post11181260

I suppose customer service is what you are paying for when it comes to HZ. The receiver in the Super Cub is terrible, not to mention it comes with a brushed motor. I wish it could have been bought as a kit. I ended up replacing the servos, esc and motor. Now it's a different plane.