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Old Aug 12, 2009, 06:38 PM
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Scrf1's Avatar
Joined Jun 2009
77 Posts
Hiya doggit
I have my servos mounted so the arms are at the far end (side away from center) of the provided cut out. They also exit the top of the wing instead of the bottom like a lot of others here. My Rx is mounted in a cut out in the middle of the wing on the bottom between the servos. My elev. horns are about 2inches from the prop ends of the elevons. Yes the rods run with the center of the wing so there square.
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Old Sep 07, 2009, 10:06 PM
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Jimmi's Avatar
Los Angeles Area
Joined Dec 2005
483 Posts
If your swift wants to fly up and do sudden moves is because your cg isn't correct. Once you find the correct cg spot, you will be amazed on how straight your swift will fly without any bad tendencies. This wing is truly a great flyer as I found out myself. But be patient and you will find the correct cg spot. I thought I had mine as good as it got, but I moved the battery back some more and was surprised to see it fly solid and straight as an arrow.
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Old Nov 08, 2009, 03:03 PM
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Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,538 Posts
Another Mini is Born!

Hi all,
Last night I finished building 1 of 2 mini's I have. The build was supposed to follow the spirit of my Swift II builds (build, video)... at least 2:1 thrust to weight, and light enough to have fun going slow. Without having flown it, I already have a strong feeling I reached that level of fun on this mini. This one's for my buddy Brian; the next one will be for me, and will sport identical construction and specs:

Hextronic 16gm outrunner (rewound 11T-24awg-Delta, 2800Kv)
TP 2s480 Prolite v2
GWS 5030HD
Turnigy Plush 10A esc
HXT500 servos
Spektrum AR6110e
AUW = 4.55oz <--

FWIW, that AUW includes a 0.17oz lead ballast in the nose for CG. It so happens that my TP 2s730 PL2's fit well and CG without lead. With the 730 the AUW would go up a mere 0.1oz, so Brian and I might end up going that route eventually.

The pictures explain most everything... top mount/stealth construction, epp and welder caps, one piece i-beam flat spars... yada yada. I did make a balsa/ply motor mount like I did on my Swift II's, but this time my attempt (4.8gm) was heavier than the stock mount (1.0gm), so I scrapped the wood mount just went with the flow and tried to make it less "blocky". I usually bench test before maiden, but limited time kept me from testing this time. Dave quoted 10.2oz static, 7.4A, 76%, so this one should end up on the fun side of the spectrum.

I'll let you guys know how the flying goes... supposed to be no wind today... hopefully get some video.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Nov 08, 2009, 03:33 PM
No such thing as overpowered
Wilit run? 353's Avatar
Suffolk, England
Joined Sep 2008
1,817 Posts
I like the wya you hid every thing internally.

very smart!!
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Old Nov 08, 2009, 10:09 PM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,538 Posts
Thanks Wilit run, sometimes I wonder if such efforts will last long enough to pay off, but after today's flying session I have no doubt this one will work out.

For today's maiden flight, I used up a whole pack trimming and tuning a couple of mixes. The CG was dead center of the specified range, and no pull out on dive, so that was good. Rolls dove to the left and climbed to the right, so I had to add differential mix; AIL->ELE -15% Right, +5% Left. Outside loops were perfect, but it rolled sharp to the left during hard inside loops. So another mix fixed that; ELE->AIL +5% up, 0% down. After the mixes were sorted, she flew perfectly. So I guess I must have installed the horns out of alignment; oh well, that's what computer radios are for, lol. At least it wasn't assymetrical flex or warp; mixing won't fix those problems!

Once the mixes were setup, she flew like a dream. Floaty, Point and shoot regardless of throttle setting, and zero flex. Full travel elevator during WOT vertical dives didn't upset anything; zero flex indeed. Multiple inside and outside loops at 100% travel WOT required no aileron correction. Going from near stall to full speed 5' high, no elevator tweaking was required. Slow handling was very impressive. I wasn't expecting much in that department from this tiny wing, but she was able to negotiate 10' figure 8's, 3' off the ground, at about 25deg alpha, at a slow jogging pace; easily hand catch-able, and very respectful performance considering the size. There was wing rock, but this is the first wing I've flown that can even come close to what I'd call high alpha. Control authority was also solid at any speed, and response was sharp and crisp. One of the highlight maneuvers was the 4-point vertical hesitation roll; a sure fire crowd pleaser. There was largely no wind today, but at times there were strong gusts. Lets put it this way, I would not be afraid to fly this little bugger in 20mph winds if the opportunity presented itself. Actually, I think that would be fun!

The only downer was the motor mount. After 4 WOT nose dives it finally tore off. There was also a little prop bite on the TE in front of the prop after the 2nd WOT nose dive. It'll be OK after a simple repair with some Welder, but Brian's going to add some strapping tape to reinforce the mount. Hopefully that will make it 100% invulnerable; if not we have plans to embed some small pieces of CF between the firewall and TE. A little bit of "knowing how to fall" wouldn't hurt either (kill throttle before impact). hehe

Overall, I have to say this mini is the funnest sub 30" wing I've ever flown. It's the perfect "family vacation" take along plane. Can't wait to get mine RTF now!

Cheers,
Kev

ps: I made sketches and recorded all the critical dimensions this time, so if anyone is interested let me know.
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Old Nov 09, 2009, 12:54 PM
No such thing as overpowered
Wilit run? 353's Avatar
Suffolk, England
Joined Sep 2008
1,817 Posts
well it certainly sounds a nice plane.

Have you tryed it on 3S?

yeah computer radios are very good and they cover hundreds of mistakes on my aircraft!!
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Old Nov 09, 2009, 01:42 PM
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Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,538 Posts
I have a few 3s480's but haven't tried them on Brian's wing. He lives 1hr out of town, and he took it home with him yesterday. So I can't easily borrow it for experiments, but I should be finishing my mini build before the weekend. Seeing as how a 2s730 fit, there's easily enough room for 3s. 2s730 weighs close to 3s480, so it should CG pretty close without the nose ballast. Amp draw is already high on 2s with 5", so I'd have to prop down to a 3" prop... maybe even cut a 3" down.

It doesn't take much thrust to fly though (1/8 throttle for slow and level, 1/2 throttle is a steep climb), so I think launching shouldn't be an issue even with a 3" prop. I'll bench test 3s this week when I get to that point on my mini; if I can tame amp draw I'll do a 3s flight, see how it goes.

When I get my mini built later this week, I'll swallow my pride and strap on my hat cam for a flight or 2. I think only video can describe how much fun this little wing can be.

Cheers,
Kev

[edit: If you have a 3s mini and were curious if the 16gm hex would work, Dave got excellent results with 14T-25awg-Y with 3s and gws5030hd; around 7A 12oz static, 80%. If I was set on a 3s mini, that's what I'd do.]
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Old Nov 09, 2009, 07:52 PM
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Scrf1's Avatar
Joined Jun 2009
77 Posts
I think my mini weight in at 4.85 with a 2c 500mah. I might have the same motor 15g 2300kv stock. Im running a 6030 prop and the amp draw is 7.4 if I remember. I tryed a apc 5.25x4.75. It was a little faster but I didn't move the batt. to compensate for the weight of the prop so I brought her in and just went back to the 6030. All I had to do was pull the batt. off and stick it to the velcro a little forward so Im guessing I must like the 6030 better its been there for the last 15 flights
Fun little plane.
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Old Nov 10, 2009, 06:07 PM
Professional relaxer
nyflyer1's Avatar
Upstate NY
Joined Nov 2009
48 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite View Post
Hi all,
Last night I finished building 1 of 2 mini's I have. The build was supposed to follow the spirit of my Swift II builds (build, video)... at least 2:1 thrust to weight, and light enough to have fun going slow. Without having flown it, I already have a strong feeling I reached that level of fun on this mini. This one's for my buddy Brian; the next one will be for me, and will sport identical construction and specs:

Hextronic 16gm outrunner (rewound 11T-24awg-Delta, 2800Kv)
TP 2s480 Prolite v2
GWS 5030HD
Turnigy Plush 10A esc
HXT500 servos
Spektrum AR6110e
AUW = 4.55oz <--

FWIW, that AUW includes a 0.17oz lead ballast in the nose for CG. It so happens that my TP 2s730 PL2's fit well and CG without lead. With the 730 the AUW would go up a mere 0.1oz, so Brian and I might end up going that route eventually.

The pictures explain most everything... top mount/stealth construction, epp and welder caps, one piece i-beam flat spars... yada yada. I did make a balsa/ply motor mount like I did on my Swift II's, but this time my attempt (4.8gm) was heavier than the stock mount (1.0gm), so I scrapped the wood mount just went with the flow and tried to make it less "blocky". I usually bench test before maiden, but limited time kept me from testing this time. Dave quoted 10.2oz static, 7.4A, 76%, so this one should end up on the fun side of the spectrum.

I'll let you guys know how the flying goes... supposed to be no wind today... hopefully get some video.

Cheers,
Kev
That is awesome!
How did you make the pockets? Did you make them before joining the two wing halves or after? What tool did you use?

I had a mini swift way back when but it slowly became unflyable after all the crashes. It was the sweetest flying plane I have ever had and I'm going to get another. It was a pretty sloppy build, but this time, I want to get it right.
My setup was designed to be light and potent- a UH 10g 2000kv outrunner with a 360mah 3s and a 5030 prop. It was pretty quick-I'm not sure how quick, though.
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Old Nov 10, 2009, 09:22 PM
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Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,538 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyflyer1 View Post
That is awesome!
How did you make the pockets? Did you make them before joining the two wing halves or after? What tool did you use?
Thanks!

I joined the wing halves together first, then installed the 2 CF spars and the LE tape. Next I used a torch heated screwdriver to melt foam so my servos would sink in deeper, so 3mm epp caps would fit flush. Then I used a breakaway razor blade to cut out the esc/RX and lipo bays from the wing, following a hatch template I traced on the bottom. Then I removed the 2 blocks, and cut 2mm thick slices from the tops and bottoms with my breakaway blade; these 4 slices will form nice caps for the bay, as well as the lipo hatch. Next I installed the servos and routed the wires to the bay. With the wires ready, I glued both bottom caps, the top rear cap, and servo caps flush with the wing with welder glue.

FYI, the slices were about 2mm thick. I just eyeballed it. You do want to try and get each slice with just 2 cuts, from outside toward the glue joint. Unless you have a hotwire setup, you don't want to cut too thick and have to take a mm off an already floppy piece of epp.

Cheers,
Kev
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Old Nov 10, 2009, 09:33 PM
Professional relaxer
nyflyer1's Avatar
Upstate NY
Joined Nov 2009
48 Posts
Thanks a lot, Kev. This should really help me in my build and probably all other flying wing builds.
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Old Nov 10, 2009, 09:34 PM
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Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,538 Posts
Just maidened my 2nd mini swift build, my personal mini... WOOHOOOO!!!

I built this one the same as in my previous post, but with a CF reinforced the motor mount and a better attempt at shifting the weight forward. The difference with the CF in the mount is huge. Without CF the motor mount flexes and creates strong coupling. That is why I had to resort to strange mixes before; this time around the motor held strong, so there was no bad habits to program out. FWIW, my buddy fixed his mount and upgraded it with CF. He flew it today, and the crazy mixes I put on his radio last Sunday are now causing problems, rather than canceling problems with motor mount flex. That's a good problem to have!

Ironically, my efforts to shift weight forward on this build didn't pay off; no LE tape past CG and full width Henry's/Welder under the lipo. I had to add 6.5gm of lead in the nose with a 2s480. Despite less weight in LE tape, the motor mount CF reinforcements added 1.2gm to the AUW. In case you noticed I used 3m extreme tape this time, it weighs the same as the stuff I used on my buddy's mini (1.5gm/ft). Anyways, this one has an AUW of 132gm with the 2s480 and 6.5gm ballast, and 134gm AUW with the 2s730 (no ballast).

A bit OT:
I heard negative things about the tp 480 pl2 cells, so I took preemptive action and went from the GWS 5030hd to a GWS 4530hd. To be honest, there's little noticeable difference between the 2 props to me, but my buddies with the 5030 will probably visibly have more punch when we fly side by side. IMHO, that's worth having my lipo land cold, which it did after 8min of mixed flying today.

Minis Rock!

I took pics during the build this time around... now that it is refined enough to share details.

Enjoy!
Kev

[edit: The manual doesn't have control throw advice. I just got too excited and flew my first flights with everything 100%, not even an EPA adjustment (about +-7/8" ELE and AIL), and elevator was waaaaay too sensitive. Even during high angle of attack the full 7/8" travel was not usable; beyond 3/4 stick was all stall. For me it was doable, but more jerky than I prefer. The Swift II manual says +-30deg AIL and +-20deg ELE, and holding my mini next to my Swift II they look the same (only different scale). It follows that the elevator travel should be about 2/3 of aileron travel for the mini as well. I liked the ailerons as they were, so I left them alone and reduced my elevator to +-9/16". That should help a lot, but I'll have to try it in the air before I pass judgment.

Just keep in mind that 2/3 rule when setting up your mini for maiden, and you'll be OK.]
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Old Jan 18, 2010, 11:07 AM
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ducatirdr's Avatar
United States, MA, Sutton
Joined Aug 2006
1,490 Posts
My first wing

I had a friend order a couple of these and I grabbed one. I'm hoping we can fly them together in the large indoor facility during the winter.

I built it light and used the following.

HK 16 gram motor
HK SS 8amp ESC
HXT 5 gram servo's
Spectrum AR6100e (what I had available)
Rhino 2c360mah

I did hog out the RX and battery location. I used an old soldering iron without a tip. It is kept just for that purpose. I then used some fiber tape to reinforce that section. I'm going to test fly it before fully taping the wing. I'm not sure I want to add the weight. But if it flexes too much I'll do it later. I also used a new x-acto to cut servo wire slots. Just one pass and i force the wire into the cut. Works great!

I did test fly it outside in blustery conditions and between the gusts it looked like the CG and trims are good. I was also amazed at the speed this thing can gather rather quickly. Friday I'll test it out in the sports complex indoor site.
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Old Jan 19, 2010, 03:01 AM
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Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,538 Posts
Video

Got video of Brian's mini last weekend.

Mini Swift (4 min 29 sec)


Cheers,
Kev
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Old Jan 27, 2010, 06:48 PM
ETFD2 Creator
etheli's Avatar
Worcester, MA
Joined Feb 2007
300 Posts
Been having a lot of fun flying my Mini Swift in my backyard and in the large indoor field with my buddy (ducatirdr). Here's my parts list:

18-11 2000kv Micro Brushless Outrunner (10g) 1811-2000 $7.99
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=5358

TowerPro 9g w12A Brushless Speed Controller TP_w12A $9.99
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...?idProduct=659

HXT500 5g / .8kg / .10sec Micro Servo $3.49
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...?idProduct=663

Turnigy 500mAh 2S 20C Lipo Pack T500.2S.20 $3.69
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=9187

Hobby King Battery Monitor 2S HKing-2S $3.49
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=7224

GWS EP Propeller (DD-5043 125x110mm) (6pcs/set) $3.19
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...dProduct=10034

Corona RS410 Full Range DSP Receiver $11.00
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...1&pid=A3067642

UM5 Micro Crystal $2.50
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A3067655

DonsRC Micro Antenna microant $5.00
http://www.donsrc.com/cart/index.php...od&productId=8

Here are some pics showing off my amateur paint job:
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