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Old May 15, 2009, 07:31 PM
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twin 70 mm sapac f 22 Raptor

I'm starting a build in a few days,
I have a couple sapac f16's that have been awesome edf's the stk fan with the new balance 3200 kv motor work awesome on 6s , so naturally i whant to put 2 of these in my f22 raptor that i just got .
My problem or rather desision i need to make is control surfaces, i could run ailerons and tailerons, or ailerons and elevators, or just tailerons, or fianlly my latest thought is eliminateing the elevators and useing the ailerons as elevrons.However i her that when you do this your balance point is changed forward dramaticly,
So does anybody have any input on the elevron setup and the new balance point?any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Old May 15, 2009, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhshv
I'm starting a build in a few days,
I have a couple sapac f16's that have been awesome edf's the stk fan with the new balance 3200 kv motor work awesome on 6s , so naturally i whant to put 2 of these in my f22 raptor that i just got .
My problem or rather desision i need to make is control surfaces, i could run ailerons and tailerons, or ailerons and elevators, or just tailerons, or fianlly my latest thought is eliminateing the elevators and useing the ailerons as elevrons.However i her that when you do this your balance point is changed forward dramaticly,
So does anybody have any input on the elevron setup and the new balance point?any input would be greatly appreciated.
I fly my stock one on a 4S and use straight elevators and airlerons. I beefed up the elevators and use a 17 gram MG servos as well. There is a whole thread on plane, mods and stock. Just scroll down and you'll find it.

Bill
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Old May 15, 2009, 08:45 PM
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thanks
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Old May 16, 2009, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100
I fly my stock one on a 4S and use straight elevators and airlerons. I beefed up the elevators and use a 17 gram MG servos as well. There is a whole thread on plane, mods and stock. Just scroll down and you'll find it.

Bill
I just read through that thread and only one guy that i saw did a 70 mm conversion and he only posted 2 times.
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Old May 16, 2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhshv
I just read through that thread and only one guy that i saw did a 70 mm conversion and he only posted 2 times.
Good, you found one 70 mm conversion. Question. Why do you want to convert to twin 70 mm. The plane with the stock 65 mm twin motors on a 4S rips through the sky. It's a foamy not a composite plane but it approaches 100 mph. Don't forget to do the following:

1. Round off the exhausts and add thrust tubes to the fans.
2. Reinforce the elevators by inserting plywood into the slots.
3. Use higher torque elevator servos because at higher speed there is quite a load on those large elevators as speed increases.
4. Consider using 12 gage noodle wire for the long run from the battery to the ESCs.
5. Enlarge the area behind the cockpit for the large 4S you will use. I run a 3500, 30-40C and get 4 minute flights at WOT and come down with 10% reserve.

Bill
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Old May 16, 2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100
Good, you found one 70 mm conversion. Question. Why do you want to convert to twin 70 mm. The plane with the stock 65 mm twin motors on a 4S rips through the sky. It's a foamy not a composite plane but it approaches 100 mph. Don't forget to do the following:

1. Round off the exhausts and add thrust tubes to the fans.
2. Reinforce the elevators by inserting plywood into the slots.
3. Use higher torque elevator servos because at higher speed there is quite a load on those large elevators as speed increases.
4. Consider using 12 gage noodle wire for the long run from the battery to the ESCs.
5. Enlarge the area behind the cockpit for the large 4S you will use. I run a 3500, 30-40C and get 4 minute flights at WOT and come down with 10% reserve.

Bill
THANKS FOR THE INFO.
I,m useing the sapac 70 mm fan with the new balanced 3200 kv motors and I'm running 6s, I already rounded out the exhaust to fit the 58mm exit diamiter of my thrust tubes.
I'm useing hitec mg 82's same as all my f 16's useing this power system.
as for the elevators mike at sapac of usa told me they would need some serious beefing up or just eliminated them and just use the airlons as elevons, and that i would need to add alot of nose weight cause the cg changes forward alot with a delta wing configureation.
Your mod for the elevators is interesting, I was either going to use the elevators off my first sapac f16 that has been retired or look into beefing up the stk ones witch look better .
he also mentioned the need to beef up the vertical stabs as they like to snap off at speeds over a hundred.
The reason for doing this project is to have a bigger plane that is easier to see at longer distances, I love my f16's but they are small and hard to see when goeing FAST and at long ranges.
I realize the chassy isn't as aerodynamic as an f 16 but most of the extra drag comes from the extra intake witch should be cancelled out by the kinda power i'm putting in to it.the sapac 70mm fan with the new motor will produce 2350 watts on 6s and live to tell about it, I've been running my f 16's with this settup for over amonth now has 5.5 pounds of thrust and pushes the f 16 to 150mph plus easy.
If i only whanted to go 100 mph I'd fly one of my many nitro power prop planes, but once you get a taste of serious speed it's hard to go back, I'm addicted now and i whant more.
4700 watts should push the f22 pretty fast i figure.
I also enlarged the intakes a bit as per a early post in the f22 thread.
and i am in the process of puttin in diveders for the intakes to cut down on turbulance.
as for the cockpit befor i glued it together i carved it out as much as possible and i fit in 2 of my 6s packs pluss a receiver.
I was wondering if i took the stk elevators and traced them onto 1/4 sheet balsa and scaled them down a bit to help with the stress problem then put a carbon rod down the center and into the pivot if that wound be suffient or wound i need to maybye glas the elevators aswell.
the 12 gage wire is a deffinate , i use that on all my high end applications,even with that wire the 115 amps that this setup pulls gets the wires hot.However i'm slideing the fans ahead 3 inches to get the right fit so the wires will be considerabley shorter then my f 16 setups ,so that will help.
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Old May 16, 2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhshv
THANKS FOR THE INFO.
I,m useing the sapac 70 mm fan with the new balanced 3200 kv motors and I'm running 6s, I already rounded out the exhaust to fit the 58mm exit diamiter of my thrust tubes.
I'm useing hitec mg 82's same as all my f 16's useing this power system.
as for the elevators mike at sapac of usa told me they would need some serious beefing up or just eliminated them and just use the airlons as elevons, and that i would need to add alot of nose weight cause the cg changes forward alot with a delta wing configureation.
Your mod for the elevators is interesting, I was either going to use the elevators off my first sapac f16 that has been retired or look into beefing up the stk ones witch look better .
he also mentioned the need to beef up the vertical stabs as they like to snap off at speeds over a hundred.
The reason for doing this project is to have a bigger plane that is easier to see at longer distances, I love my f16's but they are small and hard to see when goeing FAST and at long ranges.
I realize the chassy isn't as aerodynamic as an f 16 but most of the extra drag comes from the extra intake witch should be cancelled out by the kinda power i'm putting in to it.the sapac 70mm fan with the new motor will produce 2350 watts on 6s and live to tell about it, I've been running my f 16's with this settup for over amonth now has 5.5 pounds of thrust and pushes the f 16 to 150mph plus easy.
If i only whanted to go 100 mph I'd fly one of my many nitro power prop planes, but once you get a taste of serious speed it's hard to go back, I'm addicted now and i whant more.
4700 watts should push the f22 pretty fast i figure.
I also enlarged the intakes a bit as per a early post in the f22 thread.
and i am in the process of puttin in diveders for the intakes to cut down on turbulance.
as for the cockpit befor i glued it together i carved it out as much as possible and i fit in 2 of my 6s packs pluss a receiver.
I was wondering if i took the stk elevators and traced them onto 1/4 sheet balsa and scaled them down a bit to help with the stress problem then put a carbon rod down the center and into the pivot if that wound be suffient or wound i need to maybye glas the elevators aswell.
the 12 gage wire is a deffinate , i use that on all my high end applications,even with that wire the 115 amps that this setup pulls gets the wires hot.However i'm slideing the fans ahead 3 inches to get the right fit so the wires will be considerabley shorter then my f 16 setups ,so that will help.
Your setup ought to be a real ripper. Why don't you do a build thread? It would be fun to read and see your modifications, then the maiden.

I didn't reinforce the vertical stabs but with the speeds you are talking about some judicious placement of CF would be good idea. I permanently glued mine in with JB WELD.

Bill
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Old May 16, 2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100
Your setup ought to be a real ripper. Why don't you do a build thread? It would be fun to read and see your modifications, then the maiden.

I didn't reinforce the vertical stabs but with the speeds you are talking about some judicious placement of CF would be good idea. I permanently glued mine in with JB WELD.

Bill
I'm kinda new this forum, so i'm not sure on how to iniatiate a build thread.But i do have i digital camera for pictures, but no video camera acccess, however one of my local rc clubs has a radar gun, so I will be radaring it,
So far i've only had one chance to get one of my f16's on radar,It had a taileron break off but they radared it at 127 mph cruiseing half power, before the failure.
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