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Old May 22, 2012, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
Seen as you are running good packs, I would be looking for a 2300kv motor and a GWS 5043 prop.
2300kv motor by HH? Like the one on the old UMX Beast?
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
Seen as you are running good packs, I would be looking for a 2300kv motor and a GWS 5043 prop. I've got that combo in an Sbach which is waiting for a new airframe.
Think I'll swap it to the Beast.

The 2500kv motor that comes with the B3D is a bit of a letdown tbh, you want to either go LOUD and it is LOUD! with 3000/5030 or whisper quiet (you hear the servos louder than the motor!) with 2300/5043 which is just about the same performance but a great deal better for parkflying
I retract my entire statement

I've just transplanted the 2300/5043 3S into the Beast from the Sbach. Running up the motor has it shutting down at anything near half throttle. The Rx flashes until you shut off the power for a few seconds then it restores power and stops flashing. All the time the control surfaces work.

I tried the OE motor and prop. This worked, for about a minute. Maybe more but I was just getting used to flying this again when the motor died again. Control surfaces still worked so it just glided (aka - dropped like a brick) onto the floor and tipped over breaking a previous fix on the inter-wing spacer

So I'm back to square one. I'm tempted to try the 2300 with the OE prop but that will have to wait for this repair...

Any suggestions on power train most welcome!
(btw I'm running TP 250s)
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by paul310 View Post
2300kv motor by HH? Like the one on the old UMX Beast?
Sorry, my bad - I'm all mixed up

The 2300 (yes from the V1 Beast) and 5043 or the 3000 (Stryker/Gee Bee) and 5030 are both perfect on 2S.

My troubles are trying to get a good 3S setup

Tony
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
Sorry, my bad - I'm all mixed up

The 2300 (yes from the V1 Beast) and 5043 or the 3000 (Stryker/Gee Bee) and 5030 are both perfect on 2S.

My troubles are trying to get a good 3S setup

Tony
Oh, thanks a bunch, Tony. I dont think Im going to try 3s setup - dont want to fry the brick. I'll try the combination of 2300 and 5043.
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Old May 22, 2012, 09:12 AM
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Sixspeed,

Brian nailed it. I also prefer Hyp 240s when flying outdoors & lightweight Hyp 180s for indoor flying. I'm one of the guys who is running 3s in the B3D. I'm running the 2300Kv/5043 combo on 3s 180 mAh Babbelbatts. The plane has crazy power (over 300W/lb!), but it still feels light on the sticks & can still slow down nicely. No problem getting the CG right. One can do an entire unlimited aerobatic routine at 50% throttle or less! Interestingly, I find that the motor actually runs cooler on 3s. A 50% increase in voltage doubles the wattage. With twice the thrust-to-weight, a given maneuver can be completed at half the current. Because of this, the 3s 180 pack actually provides longer flight-times than the 2s 180 - provided that throttle-management is used.

Regarding the difference in pack weights - I don't have any factory Hyp 180 or 240 UMX packs. I'm using BabbelBatts & my own light-weight homebrews. Regarding handling - as Brian noted, a couple of grams or so is noticeable on this plane. Does it matter? Depends upon the venue and one's flying style. I definitely notice the difference between my 2s 180 & 240 packs when flying indoors - however, I don't really notice it much when flying outdoors. But then I'm more of a scale/precision guy than a 3D guy. Small increases in wing-loading are usually more noticeable when flying 3D. When it comes to vertical performance, a couple of grams is definitely noticeable with the stock motor/prop, as the plane is right on the edge of unlimited vertical performance. With the 2300Kv/5043 or 3000Kv/5030, there is ample power for unlimited vertical, so a couple grams is not a big deal.

Joel
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Old May 22, 2012, 10:05 AM
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Joel

Any ideas why mine cuts out above 50% throttle?
I think the ESC on the Sbach is rated higher than the Beast 3D. Do I need to swap that over too?
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Old May 22, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
Joel

Any ideas why mine cuts out above 50% throttle?
I think the ESC on the Sbach is rated higher than the Beast 3D. Do I need to swap that over too?
Several have fried Sbach bricks with 3S. None have fried B3D bricks, though there is that nasty cut-out that some experience. So I'm not sure an Sbach brick would buy you anything beyond the usual luck of the draw with any brick and a possibility of actually frying it.
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Old May 22, 2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
Joel

Any ideas why mine cuts out above 50% throttle?
I think the ESC on the Sbach is rated higher than the Beast 3D. Do I need to swap that over too?
Adding to Erkq's comments - the B3D's ESC is rated for 4.9A continuous & if I remember correctly, 5.8A peak. The Sbach's AR6400NBL brick is only rated for 3A continuous & 5A peak for 500 ms - same as the V1 Beast's AR6400LBL brick.

Considering the failure reports on 3s with the 6400NBL brick, and after experiencing how much better 3s is with AS3X on the B3D, I decided to quit flying my Sbach on with 3s until I install the new user-programmable AS6410NBL AS3X brick. I sure hope it is as tolerant of 3s as the EFLU4864 brick that's used in the B3D, Gee Bee, and Carbon Cub.

Joel
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Old May 22, 2012, 11:46 AM
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My Sbach is great on 3S, it tears up the sky
Didn't realise that the Sbach had the lower ESC, I must have read that wrong

I swapped the motor back to OE and noticed some loose connections ESC - motor. Fixed them, tested ok with a Storage charged 3S. Charging one up propper to test again.

Flying is done for the day now - too many kids in the park now school has finished

point to note, I've heard it mentioned before but the prop was way off ballance on 3S and it was causing AS3X interuptions. Quick dab of tape on one blade and it's fixed. Lucky me!! It's not perfect but I doubt it will get any better without hours spending on it...

Tony
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Old May 22, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
point to note, I've heard it mentioned before but the prop was way off ballance on 3S and it was causing AS3X interuptions. Quick dab of tape on one blade and it's fixed. Lucky me!! It's not perfect but I doubt it will get any better without hours spending on it...

Tony
It's very easy to get smooth as butter with a proper prop balancer. It takes a few minutes, not hours. I'm amazed at how many people are willing to compromise their RC experience for want of spending $20 on a magnetic balancer to get it done right! Not trying to pick a fight here. I'm just trying to help people with a great bang-for-the-buck investment in this hobby.
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Old May 22, 2012, 01:44 PM
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That has been my experience also.
the magnetic balancers are great!

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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
It's very easy to get smooth as butter with a proper prop balancer. It takes a few minutes, not hours. I'm amazed at how many people are willing to compromise their RC experience for want of spending $20 on a magnetic balancer to get it done right! Not trying to pick a fight here. I'm just trying to help people with a great bang-for-the-buck investment in this hobby.
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Old May 22, 2012, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
It's very easy to get smooth as butter with a proper prop balancer. It takes a few minutes, not hours. I'm amazed at how many people are willing to compromise their RC experience for want of spending $20 on a magnetic balancer to get it done right! Not trying to pick a fight here. I'm just trying to help people with a great bang-for-the-buck investment in this hobby.
Valid point there ERKQ.

I really should have a balancer in the flight box!
The thing is though I feel that these micro 180 motors can be slightly off balance too, you can get the prop perfect but still have issues if the motor is off...

Tony
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Old May 22, 2012, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
Valid point there ERKQ.

I really should have a balancer in the flight box!
The thing is though I feel that these micro 180 motors can be slightly off balance too, you can get the prop perfect but still have issues if the motor is off...

Tony
That hasn't been my experience. Not to say it isn't possible of course. It's just that these little props are pretty much guaranteed to be way off!
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Old May 22, 2012, 02:49 PM
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Another Beast 3D convert

Yesterday was a perfect flying day here in MN! Mid-70s & sunny, with hardly a breath of a breeze, 0-4 MPH right down the centerline. I spent the entire day & evening at the field. I flew the crap out of the B3D, among others. Had an absolute blast! One of my flying buddies flies heavies for a living - A320s and the like. He's also an accomplished pattern & 3D pilot. He was screwing around with a Multiplex Fun Cub & handed me the tx for awhile. I flew it around for 15 minutes or so, having a blast doing touch & goes and all sorts of goofy maneuvers - with a big grin on my face the whole time. (I now understand why they named it 'Fun Cub'!)

Afterward, I asked him if he'd like to try the B3D on 3s. He has seen me fly it on many occasions in both calm and windy conditions. He responded enthusiastically. I popped in a fresh Hyp 180 3s Babbelbatt & set it for a neutral CG, handed him the tx, and briefed him on the idiosyncrasies of AS3X. I told him to wring it out if he wanted to. He took off & carved up the sky until the timer went off @ 4:50. As he put the bird through its paces, I could hear him laughing. He was grinning as he handed me the tx. after he landed The first thing he said was that it felt just like flying a large-scale plane. The second thing he said was that he's ordering one! Now there's a guy who really knows how to manage the throttle. He tore up the sky for nearly 5 minutes on 3s, doing pattern & 3D - and only used 97 mAh!

I also heard a number of comments about my 37 MPH wind demo last Saturday. I guess a number of pilots had been talking about it afterward & said they'd never seen such a thing - and that at first, it was hard for them to even believe their eyes.

Hmmm....

We know that the Horizon guys follow these threads, which means that they know about our 3s experiments. They must also know that we're having excellent success (so far) with the EFLU4864 brick on 3s. Makes me wonder if they're doing a bit of their own 3s testing...

Joel
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Old May 22, 2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
My Sbach is great on 3S, it tears up the sky
Didn't realise that the Sbach had the lower ESC, I must have read that wrong

I swapped the motor back to OE and noticed some loose connections ESC - motor. Fixed them, tested ok with a Storage charged 3S. Charging one up propper to test again.

Flying is done for the day now - too many kids in the park now school has finished

point to note, I've heard it mentioned before but the prop was way off ballance on 3S and it was causing AS3X interuptions. Quick dab of tape on one blade and it's fixed. Lucky me!! It's not perfect but I doubt it will get any better without hours spending on it...

Tony

Tony,

Please keep us posted on how your 3S flights go.

Static WOT vs in flight WOT.
OCP kicking in??

AS3X doesn't like out of balance props, especially on 3S power!

rc
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