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Old Jan 25, 2015, 10:41 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,219 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain MoMo View Post
Here is the video. Note that at 2:12 Guardian is switched from 3DHH to 2D (no HH) and by 2:21 she goes into a stall, spin and by the time I push throttle she hit the tree. I would appreciate your analysis and thoughts on what happened and what could have avoided this with regards to the use of the Guardian. I have flown this jet for 112 flights, and recently "upgraded" her gyro to a G from a HK 3 axis gyro. My landing technique has always been the same, with the exception of now having 2D wing level stabilization with the G. I want to learn from this to avoid this from happening with my other jets, which I have flown many times but now have a major concern with how I fly using the Guardian. Appreciate your time and attention. Regards!
I'll try watching it again when I have more time but what I see now is; A little rudder, a little aileron, and a little elevator applied. This is followed almost immediately by nose down and a lot of elevator, left bank and a lot of right aileron. This is exactly what I would expect in a stall/spin. The plane stalls and the nose drops, Guardian responds to the dropping nose with increasing (and ineffective) up elevator. As the stall breaks into a spin the inside (left) wing drops. Guardian responds to the left bank with increasing (and ineffective) right aileron.

Guardian always assumes the plane is flying. When it isn't, such as a stall, the responses will not be correct and may exacerbate the problem. I don't know of any hobby grade stabilizer that can detect and correct a stall/spin. The pilot has to maintain airspeed.

If your 2D glide angle was set too slow, that little elevator along with the increased G from the turn could easily have triggered the stall. If you are going to let the Guardian manage the glide slope, you have to let it alone to do that. Adding up elevator to a slow glide is not likely to be beneficial. Besides, you don't need it. The point of adding up elevator in a turn is to maintain altitude. The point of cutting throttle and activating the 2D glide is to come down. The application of elevator here is counterproductive as well as dangerous.

Sorry, but my assessment is pilot error leading to a stall/spin.

Lets see what others with sharper eyes and more familiarity with this type of plane think.
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Old Jan 25, 2015, 11:04 PM
Mach One
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Joined Apr 2011
3,508 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
I'll try watching it again when I have more time but what I see now is; A little rudder, a little aileron, and a little elevator applied. This is followed almost immediately by nose down and a lot of elevator, left bank and a lot of right aileron. This is exactly what I would expect in a stall/spin. The plane stalls and the nose drops, Guardian responds to the dropping nose with increasing (and ineffective) up elevator. As the stall breaks into a spin the inside (left) wing drops. Guardian responds to the left bank with increasing (and ineffective) right aileron.

Guardian always assumes the plane is flying. When it isn't, such as a stall, the responses will not be correct and may exacerbate the problem. I don't know of any hobby grade stabilizer that can detect and correct a stall/spin. The pilot has to maintain airspeed.

If your 2D glide angle was set too slow, that little elevator along with the increased G from the turn could easily have triggered the stall. If you are going to let the Guardian manage the glide slope, you have to let it alone to do that. Adding up elevator to a slow glide is not likely to be beneficial. Besides, you don't need it. The point of adding up elevator in a turn is to maintain altitude. The point of cutting throttle and activating the 2D glide is to come down. The application of elevator here is counterproductive as well as dangerous.

Sorry, but my assessment is pilot error leading to a stall/spin.

Lets see what others with sharper eyes and more familiarity with this type of plane think.
Thanks - I look forward to others and your more detailed look later. If indeed pilot error, at least I know the reasons. What bothers me the most is if its a system failure. I have some yapping that its the DX18 and that I should have purchased a Taranis and etc. So my two equipment failure concerns are proving not applicable based on what I hear. Those were the Orange DSMX 8 ch RX and the Guardian. I can take pilot error as a lesson
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Old Jan 26, 2015, 12:01 AM
Goooo!!!! Get to da choppa!!!!
United States, NC, Albemarle
Joined Jan 2013
561 Posts
Sorry to ask, because I have tried every search I can think of- with ZERO luck... 733 pages in this thread is proving quite long to skim over.

Has anyone ever tried using a Guardian in tandem with another brand of OSD that has RTH? Just curious how it worked, if at all.

Thanks!
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Old Jan 26, 2015, 01:43 AM
ancora imparo
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Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
7,143 Posts
I've used a Guardian and also a Lemon stab with a Turnigy T1000 which has GPS return to home. When the GPS is plugged in the T1000 is always on.

Doesn't work with either Guardian or Lemon.

If they are both active, two stabilisers start to argue with one another after a while. Each one tries to correct the others corrections and you quickly get oscillations building up.

One of the forum regulars built a neat switch for the T1000 that lets you turn it off in flight so I can choose between Off/2D/3D/RTH with two stabs on board. That works well.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpinnc View Post
Sorry to ask, because I have tried every search I can think of- with ZERO luck... 733 pages in this thread is proving quite long to skim over.

Has anyone ever tried using a Guardian in tandem with another brand of OSD that has RTH? Just curious how it worked, if at all.

Thanks!
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Old Jan 27, 2015, 09:37 AM
Goooo!!!! Get to da choppa!!!!
United States, NC, Albemarle
Joined Jan 2013
561 Posts
Quote:
One of the forum regulars built a neat switch for the T1000 that lets you turn it off in flight so I can choose between Off/2D/3D/RTH with two stabs on board. That works well.
Thanks John!

Would you by chance have a link to that?
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Old Jan 27, 2015, 11:57 AM
Chaos Theory Meets Dumb Thumbs
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Apr 2013
41 Posts
Here is one:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=10604
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Old Jan 27, 2015, 08:02 PM
lgs
Larry
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 2001
70 Posts
3 Position Switch Question

I am using DX8 and AR8000

I have mod assigned to the FM 3 position switch. So I am assuming that 0=2D and 2=3D but position 2 makes the plane return to level flight and fights me making turns...

Is there a simple test to make use that I have not reversed 0 and 2?
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Old Jan 27, 2015, 09:00 PM
Registered User
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United States, NM, Clovis
Joined Oct 2011
3,818 Posts
If I remember correctly I believe 0 position is 3d 1 position is off and 2 position is 2d. I actually reversed the channel to make it more in line with what you would expect...2d off 3d. Are you running the latest version? If so, you can just go into the computer program and select them in the order you want them in...
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Old Jan 27, 2015, 09:54 PM
lgs
Larry
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 2001
70 Posts
Thank you but I was hoping to find a way to visually tell if I am in 2D or 3D with the plane in my hand.

How do the surfaces react differently.
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Old Jan 27, 2015, 10:01 PM
Registered User
Hemet, CA
Joined Sep 2002
382 Posts
Igs, In 2D the led on the guardian blinks, in off the led is off, in 3D the led is on steady.
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Old Jan 27, 2015, 10:05 PM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
7,143 Posts
Quickest way if you cannot see the LED.

1) Tilt the plane and hold it there.. Stir the sticks. Let sticks return to neutral.
2) In 3D the controls will be in line with the surfaces as the Guardian will attempt to keep that tilt.
3) In 2D they will be displaced and will return to neutral when you re-level the plane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgs View Post
Thank you but I was hoping to find a way to visually tell if I am in 2D or 3D with the plane in my hand.

How do the surfaces react differently.
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Old Jan 27, 2015, 10:36 PM
lgs
Larry
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 2001
70 Posts
Thank you Art and JJ... it actually took both of your answers for me to get to mine. ( the G is and all my radio gear is hidden from view because it is mounted on the wing, invisible without taking the wing free of the fuse) TopRC FW190

I did have the order reversed in my head. Now 0=2D and 2=3D at the switch and

in each mode controls conform to JJ's explanation.
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