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Old May 11, 2012, 02:45 AM
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United States, TN, Memphis
Joined Dec 2011
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HK 5320/ PZ 15320 servos are awesome. Center fine, no jitter, quiet and very fast. My mini also doesn't do the servo freak-out move upon binding anymore. I have them temporarily mounted with epp spacers underneath but will think of something better. Two pot wires and two motor wires have to be swapped internally as well as signal and ground wires swapped so a fine tipped soldering iron and steady hands are necessary but for less than $3 each it was well worth it. They also appear (to my untrained eye) to have a higher quality pot than the stock ones and more gears in them. I have not done the "servo saver" mod on them yet so I can crash it some more tomorrow to see how they hold up. I never stripped a stock servo either due to doing the "servo saver" mode before ever flying it so I can't comment on the difference. And all 3 stock servos with arms weighed in a 7.7g and the new ones 5.5g with my foam spacers and metal link balls. I'm hoping to keep my new spacer pretty light as well. That 2.2g can be put to better use via more motor, battery or both.

I also put in some Buna 003 90d orings and at first the head had more slop than ever, until I filed down the feathering shaft some. Wow, no slop what so ever and coupled with the new metal link balls really tightened this heli up. I can't wait until Microheli has their metal swashes. My blades are undoubtedly off balance with them being as chewed up as they are but it hovered perfectly with no tail drift anymore and quieter than it has ever been. Like a faint hum, almost inaudible quiet. I noticed the bearings in all 4 of my blade grips fit on the feathering shaft a little loosely but after filing the shaft down I don't think it'll be an issue anymore. I definitely want a metal swash as mine has some play and I finally managed to break an arm off of it when I knocked it out of a tree and it dive bombed hard ground from 30'. As a bonus some of them are lighter than the stock one. Well the Xtreme one anyways but I've read that it's poor quality. Was thinking about metal blade grips as well but I seriously doubt I'll find a pair lighter than stock and I haven't broken a stock one yet <finds wood to knock on>.

I'm going to put the Bockman c05 and 7mm tail motor back on tomorrow and see if it fares any better. I think (and hope) it will. Maybe I can run 80% pitch t/a without blowouts . I'm all excited to fly again tomorrow and am thinking about a hp05s/ hp03t double brushless, governed mini with Hyperion 550's

Sorry for the novel but I'm having a good day in my mini love/ hate relationship.
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Old May 11, 2012, 03:49 AM
Perpetually covered in resin
RawmadeCF's Avatar
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Dec 2011
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Thought you were selling it?

I have the Xtreme swash and head on my Mini, not cheap at all. Not usually a fan of their products either.
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Old May 11, 2012, 04:15 AM
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United States, TN, Memphis
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I wouldn't be able to get nearly what I've spent (which is an absurd number, lol) back out of it so I'll throw some more money at it instead

How much time do you have on your Xtreme swash? Any play? I've read that the Xtreme had or will soon have a lot of play. I was wrong, the Xtreme swash will add .1g but for less play and metal balls I don't mind. I found some Microheli ones in stock, just waiting in them to get back to me about how much they weigh. I'll stick with the stock blade grips and hub since they're light and plenty strong.
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Old May 11, 2012, 05:00 AM
Perpetually covered in resin
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United States, NV, Las Vegas
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I have probably 80 flights on it and its like new.
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Old May 11, 2012, 08:22 AM
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Joined Jan 2012
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Help! my little bird is sick

I did swapping and found out one Rx is sick.
I asked walkera for exchange the Rx then said ok but
asking to pay USD30 for the return postage.

W T F!
It costs about USD3 from China to my country
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Last edited by helium voice; May 11, 2012 at 08:25 AM. Reason: update
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Old May 11, 2012, 09:54 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,295 Posts
I am worried about the durability of the receiver, especially the sockets at the front of the receiver. I damaged them following a hard crash and I think my motor FET has gone as well. It seems Walkera is aware of the problem as all the sockets are at the back for their new Super FP.

I wonder has anybody tried putting in some soft packing material between the canopy and the recevier?
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Old May 11, 2012, 01:12 PM
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The only problem I've experienced with the RX has been with the Coil breaking due to a full high speed downward front end collision on to a concrete floor. Even after a full speed impact into concrete, the bottom of my Coil was still firmly soldered and attached to the PWB. The Coil broke because the top portion of the Coil closest to the Landing Skid broke from an upwards side impact. When the top of the Coil broke off, that entire side including all the wire windings stretched upwards. It stretched so much that it caused the Coil's wire lead to break a few mm above the PWB's solder joint. That broken wire lead going into the PWB was the real electrical failure. I tried unraveling the broken wire one loop, so it could be made long enough to re-solder to the PWB, but was unable to because as I started unwinding, somehow the "end" of the wire got buried under the coil winding. I eventually unsoldered the Coil from the PWB, unwound the entire winding (about 8 inches of 0.12 mm diameter magnet wire), rewound the wire back on to the Bobbin short one loop (so the lead would be long enough to make contact to the PWB), soldered it back to the PWB, and verified the rewound Coil appears to work as good as new. I think I found and plan on ordering a suitable off the shelf replacement part number (~ $0.33 part cost + $2.80 shipping) for the Coil this weekend from DigiKey.com. I'll try the replacement Coil when I get it, and post the results.


There are 3 reasons why my Coil broke, and in order of occurrence they were:

1) Operator Error. As often as I crash, maybe I should apply this CAUTION label to the side of the Heli to remind me:
2) Canopy slides upwards too easily. I believe part of the Canopy's main purpose is to protect the expensive fragile components inside the front of the heli. Both my Minis from the first day have had Canopies that easily swing upwards with the slightest bump from the bottom. If the Canopy didn't swing upwards so easily, it probably could be used as a protective cover to help protect internal components. IMO, the best solution to protect the Coil may be to redesign the way the Canopy is secured so it doesn't come off so easily every time it gets bumped from the "chin". I suspect if the Canopy stayed attached at the bottom and held its position, then the RX would never experience impact damage, instead the Canopy or what ever it is attached to would be the only part(s) experiencing stress. I have started taping the bottom of the Canopy to the Battery Tray to help keep the Canopy from swinging upwards, and it seems to be working.

3) The Coil isn't strong enough to withstand a high speed impact with concrete. If the Canopy can't be designed to protect the Coil from a high speed impact, then the Coil should have its own dedicated protection. A few have posted having success using some kind of adhesive around the Coil. I don't know what would be best material to use. Probably anything non-magnetizable and non-electrically conductive would be better than nothing. Here are my thoughts about a few things that come to mind:

CA - I think it is probably to too thin, to offer much protection other than help the coil stick to the PWB if it isn't soldered properly to begin with. IMO, if the Coil isn't properly soldered, besides not having a good mechanical connection, it won't have a good electrical connection, so might as well just fix the problem correctly and redo the soldering to make it become a good mechanical as well as electrical bond. The bottom of my Coil had (and even after the impact still had) a good solder connection to the PWB, so I doubt CA would have helped it survive the high speed crash.

Flexible Adhesives: Silicone RTV, Hot Glue, Gorilla Glue. They are pliable, so will probably provide some shock absorbing; however, will any of them help the Coil withstand a full force side impact? If the flexible adhesives aren't rigid enough, and/or don't have a strong enough bond to the PWB, what ever force is strong enough to break off the top of the Coil, may be strong enough to rip the bottom of the adhesive off the PWB and/or strong enough to fully compress the flexible adhesive and make it useless? Nevertheless, I'm guessing any shock absorbing/cushioning, and additional adhesion to the bottom of the PWB will be better than none. Of the three I'd give primary preference to the one that is the most difficult to remove from the PWB, and secondary preference to the lightest.

Rigid adhesive: 2 part Epoxy - I've been told the 30 minute stuff bonds better than the 5 minute stuff, and if there is a problem with it not holding, it will most likely be due to different materials having different amounts of flexing when subjected to mechanical stress and/or different amounts of expansion/contraction over temperature changes. If there isn't a problem with fracture caused by different materials flexing/expanding/contracting differently, then the next biggest concern would be trying to make repairs afterwards. If the Epoxy's bond to the PWB is strong enough, and is thick and rigid enough to prevent the top of the Coil from being side swiped off during a high speed impact, I'm guessing in advent of a repair requiring the Coil's removal from the PWB, it will be difficult to remove (using heat?) the epoxy from the coil without possibly causing damage to the Coil and/or it's PWB/trace(s)?
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Last edited by i812; May 11, 2012 at 02:39 PM. Reason: change from: 0.12 to: 0.12 mm
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Old May 11, 2012, 04:16 PM
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Joined Feb 2012
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Quote:
TonyTypeS
Hey Mario. I'm using he same ESC and it works fine with no problems. You just need to cut the connector and solder the red and black wire to the rx and the signal wire will go to the motor connector where the brushed motor used to be. You can used the. Brushed motor connector too
Thanks Tony. I went ahead and did it and it works great. It's just that 0-100 throttle is like 0-30% on the tx, but i think to some degree it's everyone's issue. Easy fix with a flat curve or short curve.

I had to replace the tail boom and motor, and just went ahead and made it longer too. Not exactly pretty, but it flies great and rudder is incredibly responsive. Really fun to fly, plus the tail isn't whining so hard, so maybe +life?

Quote:
i812
2) Canopy slides upwards too easily.
Somebody on here mentioned a canopy saver mod, I posted a pic below of the cheap n' messy way I did it but there are other ways to do it, and that way the canopy doesn't slide over the rx, if that's what you're worried about.
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Old May 11, 2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marioinc View Post
...

Somebody on here mentioned a canopy saver mod, I posted a pic below of the cheap n' messy way I did it but there are other ways to do it, and that way the canopy doesn't slide over the rx, if that's what you're worried about.
Thanks

It looks better than what I was doing with plain tape.

What material is that Canopy Saver support structure made from?

It appears as if you might be using the black Dampeners held in place with some kind of thick white Washer for the Servo Saver Mod. What exactly is that thick white Washer looking material you have over the Servo Arm? How long have you been flying with that Servo Saver Mod, and how aggressive do you accelerate/decelerate the Pitch and Cyclic sticks when flying (i.e. do you do 3D stuff?)?
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Last edited by i812; May 11, 2012 at 05:08 PM. Reason: added Servo Saver questions
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Old May 12, 2012, 01:34 AM
9958 gave me the toilet bowl
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United States, IL, Rockford
Joined Jan 2012
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Wowhobbies has the BNF on sale for 139.95
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Old May 12, 2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by i812 View Post
Thanks

It looks better than what I was doing with plain tape.

What material is that Canopy Saver support structure made from?

It appears as if you might be using the black Dampeners held in place with some kind of thick white Washer for the Servo Saver Mod. What exactly is that thick white Washer looking material you have over the Servo Arm? How long have you been flying with that Servo Saver Mod, and how aggressive do you accelerate/decelerate the Pitch and Cyclic sticks when flying (i.e. do you do 3D stuff?)?
I made it cutting one of those plastic medicine containers, or those old camera film containers might work too. I guess its clear but just to make sure, the plastic 'strip' goes inside the canopy pushing it down.

For the servos, it's just thick cardboard paper over some diy rubber washers. I don't fly 3d as in upside down and stuff, but i throw it around pretty hard, enough that the motor cant keep up for more than a couple maneuvers and it hasn't ever slipped once. But im guessing it works since ive had to readjust the arms thousands of times and it still flies normally...
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Old May 12, 2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyTypeS View Post
Here's my modded up Mini CP. This thing flies great and best of all the tail holds rock solid. I love flying this thing now because I don't have to worry about poor collective management causing the tail to blow out. Just fly, jam the sticks, and have fun!
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Tony,

Did you use the soldering iron to melt the Tail Motor Holders together while the Motors were installed? If so, the heat may have weakened the Motor Magnets?

Also, from looking at pitch of the Tail Rotor Blades, it appears you've reversed the polarity of Voltage going to the most rearward Tail Motor, to make that Motor spin in the opposite direction from the way it was originally designed to spin. I can't think of a better way to do that mod with stock parts; however, I believe the Mini's Tail Motor has internal wire Brushes which are bent and assembled at an angle in such a way that they work best only when the Motor is spinning in a particular direction. Although swapping wires to reverse the polarity of the Voltage going into the Motor will make the Motor spin backwards, I think spinning the Motor backwards will cause the wire brushes wear out faster. Perhaps this crude diagram may help explain why:

/O/

Both wire Brushes (both "/") are bent and angled so their tips apply pressure and have electrical contact with the Commutator (the "O"). In the above diagram, if the Commutator is rotated CW, the springiness of the wire Brushes allow them to automatically maintain slight electrical contact pressure as they "slide" along the Commutator; however, if the Commutator is rotated CCW, the Commutator will "push" on the wire Brushes causing them to become hotter, wear faster, and fail prematurely.

As an example, think how a cat or dog's hair behaves depending on which way it is brushed: in one direction stroking downward from the top of their head towards the legs, the hair lays flat, and the stroke is smooth; whereas, in the opposite direction stroking upward from the legs towards the top of the head, the hair wants to stand up and the stroke is rough. With all the wire brushed Motors I've seen, the wire brushes behave the same way, and have a preferred direction of being "stroked" (i.e. rotating around) the Commutator.

Although the below EatAtJoes video is of a different Tail Motor, starting at 1:35 it shows what wire Brushes look like, how they are angled and bent to make spring contact with the Commutator:

E Flite Blade MSR Tail Motor End Cap Repair (9 min 6 sec)


I think if a different Motor designed to spin in the opposite direction was used, or a Tail Rotor that has oppositely angled pitch, then it might be a better mod, because it would probably last longer.
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Last edited by i812; May 12, 2012 at 10:32 AM.
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Old May 12, 2012, 11:49 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,295 Posts
Thanks, I think the issue with the coil is well known. The sockets at the front is also another issue. It seems that the receiver is quite fragile and I will fly it over grass from now on. Right now, I have got two receivers under repair. It appears that Walkera will repair them for free but you will have to pay for shipping.

For those with the Devo 8S, 10 and 12S, there is another issue to look out for. You should disable the telemetry sensor on the transmitter if you are flying a non telemetry enabled heli such as the V120D02S. If not, you may suddenly get a lock out in mid-flight and crash.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1644811
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Old May 12, 2012, 03:42 PM
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United States, NJ
Joined Jan 2011
137 Posts
If using the Genius main motor last only 50 to 100 flights, how often do you replace the brushless main motor (i.e. C05)?
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