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View Poll Results: Which quadrocopters and/or tricopters do you fly?
Aeroquad 210 7.13%
Alien Jump Jet 48 1.63%
Alien Saucer 35 1.19%
Draganflyer DF-IV 33 1.12%
Draganflyer DF-V TI 23 0.78%
Draganflyer Experimental Brushless (Spectrolutions) 39 1.32%
Draganflyer X6 32 1.09%
Quadpowered 244 8.28%
Microdrone 33 1.12%
Mikrokopter V1.0-ME 102 3.46%
Mikrokopter V1.0-ME with NAVI 193 6.55%
Mini-Mixer quadrocopter 30 1.02%
Mini-Mixer tricopter 28 0.95%
Self-build quadrocopter flight board/firmware 1,328 45.08%
Self-build tricopter flight board/firmware 711 24.13%
UAVP 73 2.48%
UAVP-NG 26 0.88%
UAVX 73 2.48%
Walkera UFO #4 32 1.09%
Walkera UFO #5 46 1.56%
Walkera UFO #8 39 1.32%
X-BL 31 1.05%
X-BL FunPilot 25 0.85%
X-BL Autopilot, ReasearchPilot, Hornet, Hummingbird, Falcon 14 0.48%
X-UFO 64 2.17%
Y-UFO LA Heli 24 0.81%
Y-UAVP 17 0.58%
Y-UAVX 30 1.02%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2946. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Nov 21, 2010, 09:11 AM
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Ironbridge (UK)
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hi Jim
are their any links on learning how to perform flips and rolls etc
might be quite useful to people.

cheers

Josh
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 09:17 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,508 Posts
Hi Josh,
I've seen posts from Warthox explaining what he is doing. Maybe we could get him to post a windowed video of his stick movements too
Here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2394
Cheers,
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshbb View Post
hi Jim
are their any links on learning how to perform flips and rolls etc
might be quite useful to people.
cheers
Josh
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 09:20 AM
Registered User
Ironbridge (UK)
Joined Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Hi Josh,
I've seen posts from Warthox explaining what he is doing. Maybe we could get him to psot a windowed video of his stick movements too

Cheers,
Jim
thanks jim, yes a windowed video would be great.
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cid156 View Post
Thanks, but I was not looking for this kind of informations.

In fact I am looking for the flying quality. Which one is the more stable, fast, acrobatic...etc
unless you know how to code really well on a cheap DIY board, nothing is more stable then X-3D or MK not saying anything else out there is not good, but if your looking for all 3 of your needs.

Gotta remember some of these guys are so good at flying that they can take an unstable quad and make you think that its solid in these vids.
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 02:55 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,508 Posts
Personally, I would not subject an expensive MK or X-BL or even the versatile and flexible UAVX that costs about a third as much as those and can even be setup as a tricopter or V-tailed copter if desired to the inevitable crashes from aerobatics, but then I am not nearly as good as Warthox at that kind of flying he is able to do with the very successful KK tricopters and quads or the Multiwiicopter tricopter, quad and hexa setups...

For a $40 board option and the excellent build log Alex has posted at http://radio-commande.com/internatio...copter-design/ a little bit of learning curve to set it up with at for aerobatics is well worth the effort and the knowledge gained will help with any other later build and setup. The Multiwiicopter thread is here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1261382 Then you will feel relieved when you trash a $40 FCB in your quest for flying skills
More Warthox: http://vimeo.com/warthox/videos/page:1/sort:newest

kk multicopter - crashs (3 min 14 sec)

Cheers,
Jim
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 03:10 PM
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Chicago, IL
Joined Aug 2005
2,805 Posts
Hey Jim,

Or, just don't crash multicopter aerobatics (pretty much limited to looping) from my perspective is no more difficult than hovering around. Of course this all depends on altitude and where you are trying to perform said aerobatics. I've read continuous praise in several threads for those who can loop quads well or whatever, but the reality is, when compared to heli aerobatics, it's really pretty silly. That's to say, it's easy. I've crashed more trying to fly precision/nose-in circuits than I have looping. Since learning to loop my X-BL (I did break an arm once learning), I don't believe I've crashed a single time performing them (I'm sure I've done several hundred at this point, or more). I have yet to try looping with my MK, but that's because I'm new to the platform. I guess my sole point is, one likely will see looping as a very simple extension of everyday flying once they've done a few. I personally deem them less risky than flying nose-in. For the record, I consider myself an average pilot, at best.

Damon

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Personally, I would not subject an expensive MK or X-BL or even the versitile and flexible UAVX that costs about a third as much as those and can even be setup as a tricopter or V-tailed copter if desired to the inevitable crashes from aerobatics, but then I am not nearly as good as Warthox at that kind of flying he is able to do with the very successful KK tricopters and quads or the Multiwiicopter tricopter, quad and hexa setups...

For a $40 board option and the excellent build log Alex has posted at http://radio-commande.com/internatio...copter-design/ a little bit of learning curve to set it up with at for aerobatics is well worth the effort and the knowledge gained will help with any other build and setup. The Multiwiicopter thread is here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1261382
Cheers,
Jim
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Personally, I would not subject an expensive MK or X-BL or even the versatile and flexible UAVX that costs about a third as much as those and can even be setup as a tricopter or V-tailed copter if desired to the inevitable crashes from aerobatics, but then I am not nearly as good as Warthox at that kind of flying he is able to do with the very successful KK tricopters and quads or the Multiwiicopter tricopter, quad and hexa setups...

For a $40 board option and the excellent build log Alex has posted at http://radio-commande.com/internatio...copter-design/ a little bit of learning curve to set it up with at for aerobatics is well worth the effort and the knowledge gained will help with any other later build and setup. The Multiwiicopter thread is here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1261382 Then you will feel relieved when you trash a $40 FCB in your quest for flying skills
More Warthox: http://vimeo.com/warthox/videos/page:1/sort:newest

http://vimeo.com/14998344
Cheers,
Jim
crash and build a cheap quad a dozen times learning because of the lack of stableness then add up the cost, kk copter is not a quad for learning but rather a cheap quad to start flying, I feel more comfortable tryn things with my xbl or mk because they help you, diy ot kk types do not! just my 2 cents happy flying!
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 03:50 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,508 Posts
Ken and Damon,
Yep. However the main issue with using an expensive and hard to get parts for MK for aerobatics is the way too thin 4-layer boards they use. After the first couple of "hard-landings" made by the noob flyers, it starts to go wiggy because the boards and the way they are soldered onto the thin traces quickly fail when g-stress is applied. So soon thereafter those boards don't fly nearly as well as they once did if at all without knowledgeable repairs that frequently must be sent back to the overseas factory to have done. It is much better to learn about your model by building it from easily available parts in my book. There are of course ARTF and RTF models inthe ~$200 range with a simple Tx, but those typically can't do aerobatics. Most of the BIY multicopters can do loops and I'd much rather do that type of flying with ~$40 FCBs than risk trashing a ~$200-$1000 FCB...
As you say...to each his or her own...

Damon, you are far too modest about your flying skills
Cheers,
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad_Addict View Post
crash and build a cheap quad a dozen times learning because of the lack of stableness then add up the cost, kk copter is not a quad for learning but rather a cheap quad to start flying, I feel more comfortable tryn things with my xbl or mk because they help you, diy ot kk types do not! just my 2 cents happy flying!
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnine View Post
Hey Jim,
Or, just don't crash multicopter aerobatics (pretty much limited to looping) from my perspective is no more difficult than hovering around. Of course this all depends on altitude and where you are trying to perform said aerobatics. I've read continuous praise in several threads for those who can loop quads well or whatever, but the reality is, when compared to heli aerobatics, it's really pretty silly. That's to say, it's easy. I've crashed more trying to fly precision/nose-in circuits than I have looping. Since learning to loop my X-BL (I did break an arm once learning), I don't believe I've crashed a single time performing them (I'm sure I've done several hundred at this point, or more). I have yet to try looping with my MK, but that's because I'm new to the platform. I guess my sole point is, one likely will see looping as a very simple extension of everyday flying once they've done a few. I personally deem them less risky than flying nose-in. For the record, I consider myself an average pilot, at best.

Damon
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 04:01 PM
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Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Ken and Damon,
Yep. However the main issue with using an expensive and hard to get parts for MK for aerobatics is the way too thin 4-layer boards they use. After the first couple of "hard-landings" made by the noob flyers, it starts to go wiggy because the boards and the way they are soldered onto the thin traces quickly fail when g-stress is applied. So soon thereafter those boards don't fly nearly as well as they once did if at all without knowledgeable repairs that frequently must be sent back to the overseas factory to have done. It is much better to learn about your model by building it from easily available parts in my book. There are of course ARTF and RTF models inthe ~$200 range with a simple Tx, but those typically can't do aerobatics.
As you say...to each his or her own...

Damon, you are far too modest about your flying skills
Cheers,
Jim

i see your points jim, understood & mine as well i hope. the more i think about it. has this guy even flown a quad? lol jumping into areobatics lol start off with a walkera and learn to hover orientation before anything..

on a side note,my mk clone cost me less then $300 to build jim, wouldn't you say thats cheap?


i will still stand by my point though, when i had the kk copter it would be hard for someone to just start with knowing how it flew, but the kk copter cost almost what my clone did. maybe $50 less and the mk clone was well more stable.

and if damon is an average pilot im still learning how to turn mine on...
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 05:28 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,508 Posts
Ken,
OK...math in public multicopters for non-GPS setup minus frame and motors:

-- Mikrokopter ~$283 v1.3 FCB (or ~400 V2.0, or ~$435 v2.1) + $200 4x I2c ESCs =~$483-$635 Shops: www.mikrokopter.de. , www.nghobbies.com , http://www.mikrokopter.us/index.php , http://www.quadrocopter.us/ , http://www.aerobot.com.au/shop/index...iewCat&catId=4 , http://www.1hoch4.net/shop/index.php...i4v53402ajtc02 *Note: www.mikrokopter.com sells bare V1.3 and v2.0 boards for the DIYer that cuts the total price by 65%, but you must factor the cost of your time to build them. Time to build bare FCB ~2 hours.

--MK Clone ~$150 for FCB and ~$48 for 4x I2c ESC's = ~$198 Shops: ??? Not sure about the clone so maybe you can fill in the blanks Ken.

--UAVX ~$80 FCB + ~$54 LSY gyros + ~$36 accelerometer + ~$30-$50 for 4x ESCs = ~$210
Shop: www.quadroufo.com *Note: www.quadroufo.com sells bare boards for the DIYer that cuts the total price by ~65%, but you must factor the cost of your time to build them. Time to build bare board ~1 hour.

-- KK ATMEGA and board parts ~$20 + 4Hk401 ~$36 (or $9 using a Wii MP+) = ~$55 + ~$30-$50 for 4x ESCs= ~$85 Shop: http://www.kkmulticopter.com/ Time to build FCB ~1 hour.

-- Multiwiicopter ~$18 for Aduino ProMini + ~$7 Wii Nunchuk + ~$9 Wii MP+ = ~$34 + ~$30-50 for 4x ESCs= ~$64 Shop: Various sources for easy to find parts and http://radio-commande.com/internatio...copter-design/ Time to build FCB ~1 hour.

Shipping costs not included. Prices subject to vary
Cheers,
Jim
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 05:35 PM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post


-- Multiwiicopter ~$18 for Aduino ProMini + ~$7 Wii Nunchuk + ~$9 Wii MP+ = ~$34 + ~$20-50 4x ESCs= ~$54 Shop: Various sources for easy to find parts and http://radio-commande.com/internatio...copter-design/ Time to build FCB ~1 hour.

Prices subject to vary
Cheers,
Jim
Amazing. Nothing remains a state of the art for very long. At these prices, even my little kitty cat can afford to build one. LOL Add one of these and reduce the amount of soldering.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Arduino-Compatib...item1e5fc05883
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Ken,
OK...math in public multicopters for non-GPS setup minus frame and motors:

-- Mikrokopter ~$283 v1.3 FCB (or ~400 V2.0, or ~$435 v2.1) + $200 4x I2c ESCs =~$483-$635 Shops: www.mikrokopter.de. , www.nghobbies.com , http://www.mikrokopter.us/index.php , http://www.quadrocopter.us/ , http://www.aerobot.com.au/shop/index...iewCat&catId=4 , http://www.1hoch4.net/shop/index.php...i4v53402ajtc02 *Note: www.mikrokopter.com sells bare V1.3 and v2.0 boards for the DIYer that cuts the total price by 65%, but you must factor the cost of your time to build them. Time to build bare FCB ~2 hours.

--MK Clone ~$'s =??? Shops: ??? Not sure about the clone so maybe you can fill in the blanks Ken.

--UAVX ~$80 FCB + ~$54 LSY gyros + ~$36 accelerometer + ~$20-$50 4x ESCs = ~$210
Shop: www.quadroufo.com *Note: www.quadroufo.com sells bar boards for the DIYer that cuts the total price by ~65%, but you must factor the cost of your time to build them. Time to build bare board ~1 hour.

-- KK ATMEGA and board parts ~$20 + 4Hk401 ~$36 (or $9 now a Wii MP+) = ~$55 + ~$20-$50 4x ESCs= ~$75 Shop: http://www.kkmulticopter.com/ Time to build FCB ~1 hour.

-- Multiwiicopter ~$18 for Aduino ProMini + ~$7 Wii Nunchuk + ~$9 Wii MP+ = ~$34 + ~$20-50 4x ESCs= ~$54 Shop: Various sources for easy to find parts and http://radio-commande.com/internatio...copter-design/ Time to build FCB ~1 hour.

Prices subject to vary
Cheers,
Jim

jim not tryn to argue but seriously you put to much thinking into this lol but here i go lol

MY MK CLONE.......
frame = $45 shipped ( Damon )
motors 4 x $7= $28 ( HK )
i2C ESC 4 x $12 = $48 ( Chinese dealer)
FC = $150 but i got mine for $120 shipped
Props = $7 ( Gothelirc )
WIRE = $3 ( HK )

------------------------
TOTAL $287 ( rtf FOR THE COST A MK board alone )
Tax from HK estimate $6

ALL THIS WITHOUT NEEDING ANY SPECIAL BUILDING SOLDERING SKILLS


ADD

Satelite RX = $34
Battery = $8

------------------------
GRAND TOTAL $329 RTF


NOW WHAT? lol :P



Your talking about parts to DIY that dude doesnt even know what to buy and your assuming he knows how to use a solder gun and read schematics. or are we talking about you now?

NOT TO MENTION QUALITY AND BEING AS STABLE AS BEST OUT THERE....
-
MK ( FIRST OUTSIDE TEST ) Flight-Ctrl v1.3x (6 min 28 sec)
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 05:50 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,508 Posts
Ken.
Just trying to seek the truth that gets so fuzzy and provide the correct info in an Index to get folks on their way. Not pushing any one build because today there is a perfect build for every hobbiest at every skill and flying performance level in the great variety of nice projects.

So do you have any links to provide or is this one you have to whisper in a dark alley
Cheers,
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad_Addict View Post
jim not tryn to argue but seriously you put to much thinking into this lol but here i go lol
MY MK CLONE.......
frame = $45 shipped ( Damon )
motors 4 x $7= $28 ( HK )
i2C ESC 4 x $12 = $48 ( Chinese dealer)
FC = $150 but i got mine for $120 shipped
Props = $7 ( Gothelirc )
WIRE = $3 ( HK )
------------------------
TOTAL $287 ( rtf FOR THE COST A MK board alone )
Tax from HK estimate $6

ALL THIS WITHOUT NEEDING ANY SPECIAL BUILDING SOLDERING SKILLS
ADD
Satelite RX = $34
Battery = $8
------------------------
GRAND TOTAL $329 RTF
NOW WHAT? lol :P
Your talking about parts to DIY that dude doesnt even know what to buy and your assuming he knows how to use a solder gun and read schematics. or are we talking about you now?
NOT TO MENTION QUALITY AND BEING AS STABLE AS BEST OUT THERE....
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Ken.
Just trying to seek the truth that gets so fuzzy and provide the correct info in an Idex to get folks on their way. Not pushing any one build because taoday there is a perfect build for every hobbiest at every skill and flying performance level in the great variety of nice projects.

So do you have any links to provide or is this one you have to whisper in a dark alley
Cheers,
Jim
well frame i mentioned damon

motors
before logging in http://www.hobbyking.com/UNITEDHOBBI...069&aff=128433

fc =
with esc http://www.foxtechfpv.com/quadcopter...-an-p-194.html

fc no esc on sale $140
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/v13-flight...ard-p-234.html

props
http://gothelirc.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?page=2

your making my head hurt lol
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 06:03 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,508 Posts
Ken,
Thanks. This was just for the FCB and since the MK stuff needs I2c ESC costs were included. Info added to the previous post.
Cheers,
Jim
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