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Old Oct 05, 2012, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Maxmannnn View Post
The further I dig into this timer issue it seems like a bug or at least an oversight. The model cummulative timer should only count when a timer is counting up or down. This way you have an accurate "stick time" for each model's time in the air. Andy, could this at least make it onto the request list?
When Timer1 is running? Or Timer2? Or both? Or Either? Or does Andy have to figure out a way to be able to select which timer acculuates time? Or way to make it selectable? Like T1,T2,Both or Either.Might as well throw None on there while your at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
It's on the request list already.
The None selection will really confuse them.


Andy
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Originally Posted by LoneWolfRC View Post
Is there a way to reset the cummulative timer?
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Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
HIghlight it, click CLEAR.

Andy
Timer Menu and the Integrated selection gets to the cumulative model and total system timer resets
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 09:56 AM
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Thinking through the user/pilot experience I'd say utilizing a non-throttle initiated timer would be the best to way to accumulate airtime hours on an integrated timer. Basically I want to know my time from wheels up, to wheels down, similiar to a real airplane. I suppose in a (partially) perfect world the integrated timer would look at the elevation sensor of the airplane and kick the timer on and off. Not sure how that would handle hovering tail touches though .
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 10:21 AM
Air, Ground & Water
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STi update now available with support for GPS and map layout.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxmannnn View Post
Thinking through the user/pilot experience I'd say utilizing a non-throttle initiated timer would be the best to way to accumulate airtime hours on an integrated timer. Basically I want to know my time from wheels up, to wheels down, similiar to a real airplane. I suppose in a (partially) perfect world the integrated timer would look at the elevation sensor of the airplane and kick the timer on and off. Not sure how that would handle hovering tail touches though .
I have a friend who flies a commercial light jet.

His time for FAA purposes is from the time he walks out to the plane until he shuts the master power off, plus some mandatory extra time per flight (pre- and post-).

Andy
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 12:08 PM
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So is that why the integrated model timer is counting anytime the model is selected? Suppose your commercial buddy walked to the plane, taxied, then relized he had an electrical issue with the jet. All the subsequent time it took to fix the issue would still be construed as airtime hours on the airframe utilizing the current dx18 setup. Not sure if 18 channels is enough for that big of a jet. I guess we need the commercial airliner update, lol.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Not time to the airframe, time to the pilot. They have rules regarding how long they can work each week. Must be nice ...

Andy
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 01:21 PM
Stop scaring my donkey!
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It is the "Hours of Service" act, and, so far as I know, applies only to those involved in common, not private carriage.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 01:22 PM
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Time time time.....

Its an on going conversation, time. But its not time that we are really watching, its what we are applying time to.
  • TX: How long has your TX been on, at all or with a particular model..... because we don't want to run the battery down. Otherwise we'd look at it like a fridge. Plug it in and forget. We have new independent alerts actually telling us if we left it on without activity or if the actual battery level is starting to get critical.

    You also have run time of a model mimicking life cycles of components like full scale that we don't even track on a model. But some just want to know how much they've flow a particular model.

  • RX: How long will the power source for control last... so we time that. But we have a volt monitor on the RX batt levels.

  • Primary Power Source: Fuel or battery, how long will the fuel last is also timed triggered with throttle use.
  • Secondary Power: Ignition power source, FPV or what ever else have you. This varies because some fly with just enough surplus source for a flight and others may be for two or three flights.

Telemetry kind of makes all of this tracking of time secondary but as a failsafe is always measured in case your instruments (telemetry) are off....

So not to close the conversation or prolong it, I'm curious if my perspective on watching time really needs much else.

Since TX time is independent, you can fly many models vs the power source of each model, you need a timer for that.

In the model its generally the lowest of all power draws. And it doesn't really need a carry forward because we usually try to avoid flying extra battery than we need. But some do have larger batteries so may be this is the only area of various setups that may need an extra timer with a carry over.

Thats two, may be three times so far.

Since the measure of time is really only tied to the battery source of one thing or another, the trigger would be tied to what ever the minimum is. e.g. FPV the moment I turn it on, I want to be timing it as a failsafe to the Telemetry. That basically tracks with the TX timer count down because the TX turns on first. Already there.

The rest is throttle driven since its the quickest depleted source unless your a glider which is why as far as I understand they use a start switch. When I throttle up I'm using up minimum fuel timing. We've always been told to have our RX power source greater than fuel source obviously so thats tied to the throttle drive time. Its true though that we may use RX batts in multiple flights or may be flying a glider so a choice of what triggers the start becomes the factor which is also provided. None the less we don't track RX source with a carry forward timer because we watch the TX carry forward timer for that.

Its my guess that that is the reason why radio makers arrive at just two timers in general. A third timer kind of becomes necessary if using a throttle triggered time if the aircraft can shut down the fuel burn and then may have a varied longer run time than the RX. So I would feel safer to allow as always the TX timer, that just goes on connection, a Throttle timer for fuel burn and timer for min RX or other levels.

Not mocking anyone else's choice of timer but I am curious what else is really being timed that we are not already doing in some manor already.
OK may be I'm prolonging the conversation and selfishly am seeing if theres a reason why I need more but sincerely.... is there something else that I should be timing that I haven't been paying attention to? Even if its a form of the hobby that I haven't tried yet.

Did I miss anything? Not looking for an arguement.... just looking to refine what I should think I should need, not just want.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 02:27 PM
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Illinois
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Do you keep a log book (paper or electronic)? That's the best and easiest way to accumulate time in a way that is meaningful to you.

Andy
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 02:31 PM
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I agree. Why use a timer at all? For the safety of the aircraft and fellow pilots? Yes. How about applying time to education? I like to know it took me 21 hours until I learned a new-fangled XYZ maneuver on the airframe (don't laugh, maybe Im a little slow . Perhaps it's a good indication of flight tendency on a new airframe if I get that time down to 14 hours or so.

For my selfish purposes I'm only concerned with timing for the following.

1. Current Flight (currently available on dx18)
2. Time of "ON" throttle for flight (currently available on dx18)
3. Entire TX lifetime clock (currently available on dx18)
4. Cummulative flight time for selected model, not entire time model is selected (NOT available on dx18)

I'm sure I missed something, being slow and all.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 02:33 PM
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Andy, perhaps the easiest way for me is to utilize an old JR 9303 that only accumulates time when the flight timer is cranking, but then I'd be losing all the benefits of a otherwise AMAZING radio!!
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 03:28 PM
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I didn't post that to find whats good for your uses, but more so for all. Is there some area in the hobby that needs a 3rd timer if they opt out of using telemetry?

Two timers cover pretty much everything. I haven't figured how more would be useful. In fact carry over log timers for say an RX could be misleading since you already have figured even before you fly how many flights a RX batt will last. So no need for logging it. That's what I've been working with but the repeating conversation has me wondering if I'm just missing something.

Based on your blunt comment Andy its obvious, in your opinion there really isn't another valid reason for extra timers regardless on which end of the hobby your in.

K. So I'm not missing out on anything as far as I can tell.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 03:58 PM
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I was suggesting an alternative for the interim until if/when it would operate like you want.

Sorry if you think it was blunt. It's on the list - that's all I can tell you.

Andy
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
I have a friend who flies a commercial light jet.

His time for FAA purposes is from the time he walks out to the plane until he shuts the master power off, plus some mandatory extra time per flight (pre- and post-).

Andy
Fascinating. I only log door closed to door open. This is the time used for my rest calculations by the FAA. I wish we could do it his way...would make for shorter days for the same pay. They do include some extra for duty time though.
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Old Oct 05, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Woohoo! Not sure if Andy drinks beer, or what brand if he does, but pm me an address and taste pref, and I'd like to raise a toast and thank you for the potential of "perhaps/when/if/maybe/slim/next to none" - chance of making it happen.
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