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Old Nov 03, 2010, 08:26 PM
KE your cub.
Curare's Avatar
in the gutter, again....
Joined Jun 2005
4,090 Posts
Heh, I nearly bought an LTD for a grand about 6 years ago. Was like driving a boat.
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Old Nov 04, 2010, 06:04 AM
Will fly for food
Maryland
Joined Sep 2004
8,424 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermalin View Post
Yes he is... do you have that link? I'm looking for ideas on methods.
It is in the BIG ParkZone F4F thread in Electric Warbirds section.

There is also a thread in the Scale section about a guy building gear for an F3F or F4F.
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 01:12 PM
Ochroma Lagopus Tekton
Fly Wheel's Avatar
Blackstock, South Carolina
Joined Sep 2007
1,829 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
If I'd of made this comment, NoFlyZone, his brethren and many others would be "In my FACE"! And, I would not blame them!! Nuff said!
No offence was intended. But this thread is about bringing model building back, right? So in turning newbies from the dark side a few podiatric digits may have to be trodden upon.
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 01:37 PM
Senile Member
Lnagel's Avatar
Moab, Utah, USA
Joined Apr 2003
5,868 Posts
A few toes may have been stepped on too.
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 02:01 PM
Build it again, Sam!
Harpye's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
4,091 Posts
Fast food flying .... I got a bit deillusionated / or better depressed, but I see this trend in other structures too.... I can ask my boss and suggest about a possible improvement in our processes and I tells me that we are too large and to slow to go this way .. at the same day I can start a workshop ( done last year in foam forum ) and can show what 40 modelers can do in their limited free time .... more than a economically structured ( if it would be so ) company in all the working time!
other thing is that I was able to "model " a prototype in preliminary state about 20 times faster than to be done using the structure or workflow !!! Telling this to him I had to hear that I have done wrong and not the process... Am I on the wrong world? Is stowlyness going to be payed??? Is lethargy a skill???

If this is the way it is I will have to claim my own " world" where posibilities are still open and skills or the goodwill to go forward are still accepted ( at least, if not to be honoured)

Ok this finally came a bit off topic, but I guess this is the consum trend where everyone of the " rich" is able to buy, but only those who manufacture raise in their abilities and so will overtake the power to move/ rule the world!! I'm definitely a builder not a buyer!!! and if something costs about 5$ in the store and can be for 6$ done by my own ... I 'll pay the buck to have the fun!
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Old Nov 06, 2010, 02:49 PM
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saucerguy's Avatar
United States, WA, Yacolt
Joined Dec 2005
1,025 Posts
Another plane

And another chapter in my life, calls for another plane, with a budget of $5.00 being the only mandate since I'm not opting to scrounge for materials. I moved down here with another plane, one that's perfectly suited for up north with heavy winds, only to find out it's overkill for what I contend with down here, so with the change of venue, all it takes is an evening of bashing something together, not days finding the right plane, then ordering and waiting, then assembling, then finding out it's only close to what I need and having to compromise. I choose the wingspan, the controls, the looks, and it's just done on the dirt cheap, if I get bored, it's tossed or given away as a shell, and onto the next one.

We as builders have total and complete freedom to do things like this, it just makes so much sense to continue to build rather then simply buying some rtf or arf.
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Old Nov 07, 2010, 06:12 AM
Closed Account
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpye View Post
Fast food flying .... I got a bit deillusionated / or better depressed, but I see this trend in other structures too.... I can ask my boss and suggest about a possible improvement in our processes and I tells me that we are too large and to slow to go this way .. at the same day I can start a workshop ( done last year in foam forum ) and can show what 40 modelers can do in their limited free time .... more than a economically structured ( if it would be so ) company in all the working time!
other thing is that I was able to "model " a prototype in preliminary state about 20 times faster than to be done using the structure or workflow !!! Telling this to him I had to hear that I have done wrong and not the process... Am I on the wrong world? Is stowlyness going to be payed??? Is lethargy a skill???

If this is the way it is I will have to claim my own " world" where posibilities are still open and skills or the goodwill to go forward are still accepted ( at least, if not to be honoured)

Ok this finally came a bit off topic, but I guess this is the consum trend where everyone of the " rich" is able to buy, but only those who manufacture raise in their abilities and so will overtake the power to move/ rule the world!! I'm definitely a builder not a buyer!!! and if something costs about 5$ in the store and can be for 6$ done by my own ... I 'll pay the buck to have the fun!
What?
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Old Nov 07, 2010, 08:09 AM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,423 Posts
Harpye..what you describe is currently given a name in software development and test. It's calle AGILE and has shown to significantly reduce time to market, reduce defects and reduce costs. But yes... it seems creativity of the masses (building) is dying out and from very general terms modelers are being presented with what models they're provided with to "assemble" via businesses.

The great planes site.. when your write in with a question also asks, what models would you like us to produce" This is like asking what type of girl do you like... ridiculous if they think they're going to get any sort of general barometer on what to do next. But at least they're trying.

It has been said ad nauseum in this thread already in one form or another. If you want to bring model building back...introduce model building to anyone who will listen and then be there as a mentor to answer questions.. provide advice... covering help... control rod installation... electronics positioning... and the first flight. When you remove what seems like daunting obstacles to someone who's never built before, the chance of failure goes down and it works. When I helped someone build recently, i was caught completely off gaurd by what I though were general knowledge questions and this person has flow ARFS for a couple years now. He had a successful flight...but eventually dinged her up and now he's looking at repairs. So far I have noticed the questions are greatly reduced. To me.. ARFs are like checkers... and bulding is like Chess. A whole different aspect to hobby that should be experienced at least to some extent.
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Old Nov 07, 2010, 11:42 AM
Scratch Building Lives
voyager2lcats's Avatar
Columbia, SC
Joined Jul 2006
195 Posts
Thermalin, you hit the nail on the head: To me.. ARFs are like checkers... and bulding is like Chess. A whole different aspect to hobby that should be experienced at least to some extent. Our mass consumer culture is no longer tolerant of taking much time to make anything. That is going to change as money in the current economy gets even tighter.
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 04:57 AM
Will fly for food
Maryland
Joined Sep 2004
8,424 Posts
And again, look at some of the threads on ARFs. Many of these guys are doing more work, and DEFINITELY more engineering on their ARFs than most people "building."

So they don't glue the sticks together. They strip and recover, they cut and add flaps, add retracts, repaint, design and built custom parts (EDF ducts, entire retract systems, etc) and many other things.

Compared to popping out some parts, laying them on a plan and hitting them with CA. That is better?

Yes, I know, many here understand this, but there is still the undercurrent that buidling and builders are better
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 06:00 AM
Closed Account
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
Yes, I know, many here understand this, but there is still the undercurrent that buidling and builders are better
I choose to observe no such undercurrent and suggest you do the same! It's when people make the decision that there must be clear-cut descriptions of what building IS, that peoples noses get bent out of shape!

This thread is not about defining building; but, promoting it and in particular promoting the fun of building and hoping to help others recognize that it is fun to build!
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 08:36 AM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,423 Posts
I disagree as well... those who made all sorts of mods to ARFs are builders.. no question. But they are definately the minority. And I love ARFs and all they have done for the hobby in terms of bring more people in...increasing advancements in products, dropping prices on electronics, etc. Either way... my whole take is and I've said before... "it's anal" and i freely admit it, don't tell me you built something when you opened the box and were flying in 2-3 hours. You more correclty assembled something. It just seems if your going to pay the price of a kit or more and then dismantle and re-engineer the thing... why not go with a kit and kitbash... much more fun.
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 01:45 PM
JWs are Shear Fun!
Aerogance's Avatar
USA
Joined Sep 2008
2,657 Posts
I build therefore I am
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 03:19 PM
Registered User
saucerguy's Avatar
United States, WA, Yacolt
Joined Dec 2005
1,025 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
And again, look at some of the threads on ARFs. Many of these guys are doing more work, and DEFINITELY more engineering on their ARFs than most people "building."

So they don't glue the sticks together. They strip and recover, they cut and add flaps, add retracts, repaint, design and built custom parts (EDF ducts, entire retract systems, etc) and many other things.

Compared to popping out some parts, laying them on a plan and hitting them with CA. That is better?

Yes, I know, many here understand this, but there is still the undercurrent that buidling and builders are better
I found the amount of time to revise a plane, be it arf, rtf, kit, or scratch build takes it's own finesse and my hat's off to those that go that route. It's harder for me to leave it stock and always keeping it stock, there always is room for fine tuning it, be it, improving the hardware or fabricating improved or replacement parts. With some planes, it's harder and more painstaking to revise them then it is to design and build it correctly from the beginning.
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Old Nov 10, 2010, 07:05 PM
Scratch Building Lives
voyager2lcats's Avatar
Columbia, SC
Joined Jul 2006
195 Posts
Hmm. I hope I wasn't giving the impression that modifying an ARF isn't building, because it is. I agree with Brian (Saucerguy) that customizing your ARF is certainly worthwhile. Heck, that is how I got started with scratch building- after I had "modded" a few of my ARFs.
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