HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:17 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
4,626 Posts
The manual is admittedly lacking. YMMV but here's what I did.
First, sort all screws by size & length. Then, as you're putting it together, following the sequence the manual shows, there's a sort've 'logic' as to what screw to use at each point.

Some of the 'alternative possibilities' are eliminated early on in that you'll use obvious candidates (there's others same size but not near long enough, etc) so those are 'removed' from the number of confusing alternatives. You'll basically 'get it' as you proceed....at each step it quickly becomes pretty apparent which one to use, & I think being mechanically adept helps a lot in figuring it out.

One confusing factor as you proceed, due to something not usually found in these plane kits -- this one includes extra screws. Some (if not all) of the extras are used in 'pure' application, ie motorless version. Can't say surely as, I've never set mine up in that version. But you'll definitely have screws left over....if not, something's wrong!

AFA your vert-stab, IIRC the long skinny black ones were used there - and there were a couple unused extras there. Hope that helps!


The firewall:
There are degrees of 'melting'. In my experience, I bumped the nose on landing; seems at its only 3rd flight or so. Didn't think much of it at the moment; no apparent damage -- but when I was back at my table & I went to remove canopy to change out the LiPo, I noticed the nose was bent off to one side! Closer examination of the side it was bent toward, revealed 2 'ripples' in the plastic. I believe the nose plastic was warmed to the point it had softened somewhat, sufficiently to allow that side to 'collapse' a bit from the impact. I tried to push it back to shape - burnt the crap out of the finger I put inside & touched the motor, but it had cooled enough to 'set', so I put 'er away for the day. Back home I cautiously heated it up with a heat gun & re-shaped it back almost perfectly, with no side cast & flew it afterward with no ill effect.

AFA the firewall 'arrangement' with metal, plywood, & all....I think (but very well might be wrong) one of those discs is for motorless. And, being my first glider of this type, I logic'd it would be the wood disc, as the metal one had holes for the motor mounting screws. Down side was, that would conduct heat to the plastic - which at that point of my reading the thread, had seen that to be problematic. That came at about the time Sean started posting about fiberglasing his P2K's nose....double-layering it, etc. That made me look for an insulative disc....I made one from thin electronics-project 'breadboard' with all the pinholes, thinking that'd help with the cooling.

And that, even as thin as the breadboard is, was pretty much the extent of what could be fitted to the nose using the stock, made-for, motor-mounting screws. Anything thicker, the threads wouldn't reach thru (if placed inside), & if used outside, with longer screws to accommodate, caused interference with the spinner. I thought about asking what others were doing 'up there', with all the things (2-layer fiberglas inside & out, sundry discs, &c) they were adding how'd they work around the screw length / spinner interference problems, but the breadboard at least mounted up so, I just left well-enough alone.

Sean pretty well documented his glassing, but I wasn't to the point of doing that. But, now that it's been brought up - would love to hear how some of y'all handled 'nose additions' - the details.
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by StarHopper44; Apr 16, 2012 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Meant to say 'sort all screws', not separate. *duh* ? ~8)
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:19 PM
Registered User
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
61 Posts
Pathetic manual

Agreed on the manual. Use the trial and error method to select screws. just make sure screws go in more than 2 or 3 theads. Exeption
the vertical fin screws finish about flush with retainer.
The stab screws i used 5/8 " length these seem to give good retention.
The wing seem obvious , long screws up front short at trailing edge.
Yes a dab of hot glue (lo heat) on stab/fuse to prevent slop.
hi flyer is offline Find More Posts by hi flyer
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:13 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
4,626 Posts
Oh, I did mean to add but forgot....to answer the question asked about scoops.
I had gathered heat numbers (Motor, ESC & LiPo) via my EagleTree system on some previous flights, and with that data stored, I had just applied spoon-scoops around the 'nostril' vents just behind the firewall, and added 2 exhaust holes in rear quarter of the canopy. I went up to gauge their efficacy and, that was the day of my fatal flight so, wasn't aloft long enough to get anything like sufficient data. And it was far too windy to tell if the scoops affected flight characteristics - my poor ol' P2K really got blasted around up there that day, for the only couple minutes it was up.
But-t-t-t-tt, when I get 'er repaired & flying again, testing the 'scooped' setup is first on the agenda so, I can tell you then....but Lord only knows when that'll be!

I will say this.....the whole inside compartment has shown itself to be a huge heat trap! All 3 components - battery thru motor - as shown on the charts I published, heat just builds while motor's running, & only levels off while soaring, ie doesn't really cool....then resumes building while you're climbing back to altitude. The only exception was when I caught a thermal & soared for over 2 minutes....THEN it would start to cool off, but only by a very few degrees. I was really surprised by this - the extent of the heat retention.

All that is to say, airflow thru that chamber can't hardly HELP but be an improvement!
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:39 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
4,626 Posts
Here's a couple of flights' ET charts to illustrate very graphically what I said re heat 'buildup'.
In both, 'Temp A' is LiPo, 'B' is ESC, & 'C' is Motor -- in order of current flow.
I've also plotted in the RPM's & Altitude so you can tell when I had power applied & when I was gliding....time scale in minutes is across the bottom.
Check out what each component max'd out at - particularly the LiPo.
Cause for concern, as I see it! Ergo, added scoops.
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2012, 09:32 PM
I ♥ OpenTX
H2SO4's Avatar
Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
2,663 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Here's a couple of flights' ET charts to illustrate very graphically what I said re heat 'buildup'.
In both, 'Temp A' is LiPo, 'B' is ESC, & 'C' is Motor -- in order of current flow.
I've also plotted in the RPM's & Altitude so you can tell when I had power applied & when I was gliding....time scale in minutes is across the bottom.
Check out what each component max'd out at - particularly the LiPo.
Cause for concern, as I see it! Ergo, added scoops.
Impressively methodical

Question - are you using a ported spinner or one which blocks the motor completely, like the stock unit? Thanks.
H2SO4 is offline Find More Posts by H2SO4
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 03:59 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
3,887 Posts
Rudder/aileron mix ?
Had my full size trial glider lesson yesterday. Caught some good lift and added over 1000' to the areotow 2000' (Piper Pawnee) release. Lovely day for it but would be beyond my budget unless I win the lottery. I couldn't get used to the need to feed in rudder and aileron together. Lot's of adverse yaw otherwise. To much flying bank and yank powered stuff I suppose. Might mix in some rudder to aileron on my Phoenix 2000 to see if this keeps her up there for longer. Anybody added this mix and if so, how much?
Andy
headlessagain is offline Find More Posts by headlessagain
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 07:06 AM
Registered User
JLT_GTI's Avatar
Oviedo
Joined Jun 2010
2,241 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlessagain View Post
Rudder/aileron mix ?
Had my full size trial glider lesson yesterday. Caught some good lift and added over 1000' to the areotow 2000' (Piper Pawnee) release. Lovely day for it but would be beyond my budget unless I win the lottery. I couldn't get used to the need to feed in rudder and aileron together. Lot's of adverse yaw otherwise. To much flying bank and yank powered stuff I suppose. Might mix in some rudder to aileron on my Phoenix 2000 to see if this keeps her up there for longer. Anybody added this mix and if so, how much?
Andy
Still havent tried in the P2K (under construction ) but i renember that both in my CloudsFly and HawkFighter made them turn by rails ..also turns were totally stable and wind prof
JLT_GTI is offline Find More Posts by JLT_GTI
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: CL-415 GuanLi
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 08:10 AM
Heli's and gliders, what else?
BarnOwl's Avatar
Nederland, GE, Slijk-Ewijk
Joined Apr 2006
743 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlessagain View Post
Rudder/aileron mix ?
Had my full size trial glider lesson yesterday. Caught some good lift and added over 1000' to the areotow 2000' (Piper Pawnee) release. Lovely day for it but would be beyond my budget unless I win the lottery. I couldn't get used to the need to feed in rudder and aileron together. Lot's of adverse yaw otherwise. To much flying bank and yank powered stuff I suppose. Might mix in some rudder to aileron on my Phoenix 2000 to see if this keeps her up there for longer. Anybody added this mix and if so, how much?
Andy
Are you talking about aileron differential or rudder to aileron mix? To counter the adverse yaw I have mixed 30% differential and 40% rudder to aileron. Using aurora 9.
BarnOwl is offline Find More Posts by BarnOwl
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 08:33 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
4,626 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
Impressively methodical

Question - are you using a ported spinner or one which blocks the motor completely, like the stock unit? Thanks.
Thanks, and.......
Begging pardon -- my poor editing omitted one sentence that was in the original draft:
"Note these figures are all from stock powertrain components (Motor, ESC, Prop), on 3s 2200mAh 25~50C LiPos"; which would have answered your question.
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 08:49 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
4,626 Posts
Hey guys, this a li'l OT but I'm trying to find something -- no joy but hoping somebody knows a source. I've got a plane that came with what I'll call 'T-Arms' on the servos. I really like the idea that you can induce mechanical differential by advancing or retarding 'throw' using the different holes in the tips.

I did a quick sketch-up to illustrate, but hole arrangement (count) might not be completely accurate. Anybody know where this 'T-Arm' type can be obtained?
StarHopper44 is offline Find More Posts by StarHopper44
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:19 AM
I ♥ OpenTX
H2SO4's Avatar
Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
2,663 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Hey guys, this a li'l OT but I'm trying to find something -- no joy but hoping somebody knows a source. I've got a plane that came with what I'll call 'T-Arms' on the servos. I really like the idea that you can induce mechanical differential by advancing or retarding 'throw' using the different holes in the tips.

I did a quick sketch-up to illustrate, but hole arrangement (count) might not be completely accurate. Anybody know where this 'T-Arm' type can be obtained?
It's the first time I've seen one, and I don't know where to buy it, but why not just "advance" the normal servo arm a few degrees in whatever direction it has to go? Because the servo is already glued into the P2K's wing?
H2SO4 is offline Find More Posts by H2SO4
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:17 AM
Addicted to lift
eosglider's Avatar
United States, FL, Miami
Joined Jul 2010
491 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Hey guys, this a li'l OT but I'm trying to find something -- no joy but hoping somebody knows a source. I've got a plane that came with what I'll call 'T-Arms' on the servos. I really like the idea that you can induce mechanical differential by advancing or retarding 'throw' using the different holes in the tips.

I did a quick sketch-up to illustrate, but hole arrangement (count) might not be completely accurate. Anybody know where this 'T-Arm' type can be obtained?
I don't see how this T-Arm would help you accomplish that mechanical differential. I have a feeling those T-Arms are made to help trim surface without having to unscrew the servo arm or modify the length of your pushrod.
eosglider is offline Find More Posts by eosglider
Last edited by eosglider; Apr 17, 2012 at 10:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:38 AM
Registered User
JLT_GTI's Avatar
Oviedo
Joined Jun 2010
2,241 Posts
Geez ... mother of all workloads..

It took me almost 3 hours to fit the motor... 3 hours..

Its hopesly cramped in there to work with hands and make the motor , one inner plywoodfirewall and the outer metal one to match and make the bolts (wich i had to cut down to almost half since they were too long for this motor) .. only to find the inner hub is wide by 0,05cm and then having to start all over again after enlarging the hole..

apart from that secured the tail with some CA and mounted internal sevos...

I dont why but the motor (2836-1000) with no prop makes quite a loud noise .. to the point of being quite anoying in my room..and thats without a prop

By the way... the front plywood tray where the battery is suposed to go... can it be removed (for easier fixing of ESC and UBEC) just unbolting the 4 screws or is it also glued from factory?
JLT_GTI is offline Find More Posts by JLT_GTI
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: CL-415 GuanLi
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 12:25 PM
Registered User
Sweden
Joined Sep 2007
266 Posts
Itīs just attached with those 4 screws. No glue.
Freddan is offline Find More Posts by Freddan
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 12:52 PM
I ♥ OpenTX
H2SO4's Avatar
Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
2,663 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLT_GTI View Post
I dont why but the motor (2836-1000) with no prop makes quite a loud noise .. to the point of being quite anoying in my room..and thats without a prop
I had a bad experience with that motor. The magnets were very unevenly spaced around the inside of the can, and I ended up going with an NTM motor instead. No regrets.

Another thing that can lead to abnormal noise even without a prop is busted bearings. If the thing sounds like it's grinding coffee, and the frequency of the crunching noise is a function of the current rpm, then the cause is very likely one or more bad bearings. They can be replaced, but it's fiddly. HK sells a fair few standard bearing types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLT_GTI View Post
By the way... the front plywood tray where the battery is suposed to go... can it be removed (for easier fixing of ESC and UBEC) just unbolting the 4 screws or is it also glued from factory?
Sure, it can easily be removed temporarily. I glued my ESC to the underside of that tray, which leaves more room up top for the battery and allows for neater wiring (yes, I'm a pedant ).
H2SO4 is offline Find More Posts by H2SO4
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale HK Phoenix 2000 glider blk822 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Aug 23, 2011 07:21 PM
Discussion Still having electric problems with my hobbyking Phoenix 2000, Crashvideo kyrkbymannen Electric Sailplanes 3 Jul 09, 2011 07:34 PM
Discussion Ohhh noo, 2nd flight on the HobbyKing Phoenix 2000 KillerCut Electric Sailplanes 14 Jun 06, 2011 09:57 AM
Discussion hobby king Phoenix 2000 EPO Composite R/C Glider doomracing Electric Sailplanes 3 May 31, 2011 10:09 PM