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Old Dec 28, 2013, 04:19 PM
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Looking for some ideas on a good trainer kit

Hi chaps,

We're looking to produce an 'easy to fly' training aircraft in 2014. We've had a lot of interest in the Microaces kits from indiviuals looking to get into or back into RC flying but I feel that our offerings really are for the intermediate and up currently.

I'm keen to design a trainer, based on a full sized aircraft - of course - but something that will lend itself to the Microces 'treatment'.

It also needs to be an easy build so I'm thinking along the lines of a high wing aircraft with fixed u/c BUT this isn't a pre-requisit.

I would really like some input from the RCGroups membership as to a suitable subject to tackle so please feel free to fire at will!

Jon
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 05:43 PM
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If you wan't to stick with WW2 aircraft then the Fieseler Storch could be a suitable subject for a trainer aircraft. The U/C is a bit complicated though.
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 05:44 PM
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L-19?
Feisler Storch?
Westland Lysander?
Auster?

Low wing:

Chipmunk
Fleet Fort
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CF105 View Post
L-19?
Feisler Storch?
Westland Lysander?
Auster?

Low wing:

Chipmunk
Fleet Fort
i like the storch idea or like a wilga
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 07:05 PM
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I would say Stinson Sentinel L-5...

if I am not wrong it was a pure military aircraft, in the sense that was designed and built for military use only.

Built the thousands, It was the "flying jeep" of WW2 and served a very important supporting role during the whole conflict.

Somewhere I read that it had an important role supporting the British troops fighting in Burma.

Unfortunately I cannot pin point a specific mission in which the sentinel was involved.

Alternatively there is its "counterpart", the Fieseler Fi 156 Storch which has also a nice story tied to it, the famous GRAN SASSO RAID ( Operation Eiche) where it was used to the rescue Benito Mussolini


Of the two the Storch is probably the more interesting, however from the buld point of view the Sentinel should be the easiest to make and tweak (looking at the proportions)

Anyway.....I NEED a trainer, so whatever you are doing, well I am pre-ordering!
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 07:26 PM
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The L-5 looks like the love child of a Cub and a B-17.
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Old Dec 28, 2013, 07:39 PM
yes my thermal gogles are on
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a stearman would be cool too havent seen that biplane done yet
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 05:36 AM
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Many thanks for the feedback chaps,

A number of the aircraft suggested would be brilliant but there are a few design restrictions that have to be adheared too. Namely the size and shape of the motor mount and the area required to house the electronics & battery plus the side hatches in the nose.

This means that narrow nosed aircraft like the storch or the high prop shaft position of the L-5/Auster/Chipmunk etc would be impossible to acheive without up-ing the scale to beyond what I consider 'micro' to fit the required layout to fit the electronics, motor mount etc.

It makes finding a good trainer a little more challenging. At the moment the Lysander or Fleet Fort look like the least challenging to design. Another possibility is the T-6 Texan but being a low winged aircraft this could still be a challenge - and I believe the real aircraft wasnt to forgiving either.

Keep 'em coming though! The more I have to think about the better.

Jon
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 09:49 AM
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The PZL P.11 could be a candidate.
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 09:58 AM
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Many thanks for the feedback chaps,

A number of the aircraft suggested would be brilliant but there are a few design restrictions that have to be adheared too. Namely the size and shape of the motor mount and the area required to house the electronics & battery plus the side hatches in the nose.

This means that narrow nosed aircraft like the storch or the high prop shaft position of the L-5/Auster/Chipmunk etc would be impossible to acheive without up-ing the scale to beyond what I consider 'micro' to fit the required layout to fit the electronics, motor mount etc.

It makes finding a good trainer a little more challenging. At the moment the Lysander or Fleet Fort look like the least challenging to design. Another possibility is the T-6 Texan but being a low winged aircraft this could still be a challenge - and I believe the real aircraft wasnt to forgiving either.

Keep 'em coming though! The more I have to think about the better.

Jon
One option is to adopt a gearbox setup, maybe using a brushed motor, cheaper and would also leave out the ESC making the whole kit cheaper.

There aren't many options out there, I mean options with an historical meaning and unless you redesign certain parts , such as the motor mounts, or motor setup, you will not have access to many models that are RELEVANT historically. which is a pity.

Anyway, looking on the web I found :

Henschel Hs 126
Stinson L-1
Westland Lysander
Vultee L-1



all of them would allow you to use the MA motor mount and have fuselages big enough to accomodate ESC and brick.

Having said that, I still believe you should think about a new motor mount... just as an excercise I did check the cleareances for the STINSON L5 and with 18 inches WS the fuse should allow you to fit the Ap05 and still leave around 5mm cleareance on the upper part; the MA motor mount does not fit but I am preatty sure that with little modificatuion you could come up with some cleaver idea of how to fit the motor.
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 10:07 AM
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The PZL P.11 could be a candidate.
I think this would look great, although the gull wing could be tricky.
Jon, are we to assume this will be 3 channel RET and thus likely to need some dihedral? I was going to suggest the Fokker DVIII, but I think most parasol winged aircraft might look a little odd with the needed dihedral.
How about a high-ish winged single engine monoplane such as the Fairey Barracuda? Plenty of associated history with the attacking of the Tirpitz.
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 12:18 PM
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Can't believe I overlooked the Harvard, or the fixed-gear Yale in my low-wing list. Could also look at the ... ME-209 I think it was? German low wing trainer.
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 01:30 PM
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I think, Jon, your instinct about low wingers like the T-6 is correct. In model form, they would have about the same characteristics as a low-wing fighter, as the airframes are similar, in real life it was mainly just that they had less power. Also, in real life the T-6 wasn't easier to fly than a fighter. Wartime pilots said things got easier with each step if you went from a T-6 to a P-40 to a P-51.

Fat nosed high winger like Lysander sound good to me. There are other candidates like O-52, O-38, L-1, but less famous.

Of course there are a lot of civil types. How about a Stinson Reliant, Howard DGA or Fairchild 24? There were some military variants if you feel the warbird mystique is needed.

August
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 01:31 PM
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Curtiss O-52
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Old Dec 29, 2013, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by angelix View Post
One option is to adopt a gearbox setup, maybe using a brushed motor, cheaper and would also leave out the ESC making the whole kit cheaper.
Unfortunately at the moment a new set of tools for injection moulded parts is out of the questions financially plus we would need to then make an intial run of at least 10K units and purchase motors, gearbox etc in quantity to ensure a good price.

But some of the suggestions you and the other kind contributors have made are really broadening my thinking. Favourite at the moment is a toss up between the Lysander and Stinson/DGA/Fairchild. I think the Lysander is probably best configured to take all the components including wing brace but the Stinson et al are such beautiful aircraft it would be remiss not to consider them.

Jon
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