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Old Nov 18, 2006, 02:30 PM
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ClearView Flight Sim Wishlist (Ongoing)

-More Realistic spool up
-Fix the trex xl model - too twitchy
-better crashes
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Old Nov 20, 2006, 01:23 PM
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In default heli setup the governor is on. That means, when the RPM reaches 40% from the governor target RPM, the governor takes control. Once the governor has the control, the head speed remains at the governbor RPM, unless you activate throttle hold for autorotation.

If you want to control the head speed, go and turn the govenrnor to 0 in advanced setup. Then, the head speed is controlled by the throttle curve in advanced setup.

When you ask for better crashes, what exactly do you mean:

- visually more convincing chicken dance in a crash
- or damage estimation
- or more control over what results is crash - fine tuning how sturdy the heli is and when will it crash - for example, how hard the landing must be before the sim triggers the crash

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com
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Old Nov 20, 2006, 06:38 PM
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third one
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Old Nov 20, 2006, 10:14 PM
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It has now many useful features, impressive graphics, network connection etc.

Time to improve physics to the highest possible level. To do that, you probably have to collect as many test reports as possible, in order to filter the inherently subjective opinions. I think you are very close to the big guys in heli simulation quality.

My (very subjective) opinion: the helis are somehow sliding, as if momentum has too much effect. It is not just the lack of friction, as forward speed is not too high.
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Old Nov 20, 2006, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmormota
It has now many useful features, impressive graphics, network connection etc.

Time to improve physics to the highest possible level. To do that, you probably have to collect as many test reports as possible, in order to filter the inherently subjective opinions. I think you are very close to the big guys in heli simulation quality.

My (very subjective) opinion: the helis are somehow sliding, as if momentum has too much effect. It is not just the lack of friction, as forward speed is not too high.
It is more finding the best settings that fit the prevailing expectations. The physics simulation is quite complete and flexible. I need experienced fliers that are willing to work with me to provide iterative feedback for few key models - for example, Raptor 60, TRex 450 XL and Edge 25% (or 33%). The key is expert fliers helping fine tune the parameters. If needed, I will change or expand the physics to accomodate reasonable requests.

Example for constructive feedback is this:

- I have helicopter model xxxx with yyy engine, zzz blades etc. etc. It is set for mild 3d. I am progressing to holding the heli inverted low to the ground and can do tumbles and stationary rolls. I use ClearView model zzzz with the original settings. I think that this , this and this manuevers are quite different
on the sim than on my real heli. My real heli does this and the sim heli does that. Can you improve the sim heli so it's more like mine?

Once I know the pilot capabilities and what he flies, we can go back and fort exchanging the setup file for the model in question. At the end, I can provide improved params.txt file so the CV model flies more like the real model. Over time, all this changes will tricle down in the new releases.


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 09:00 AM
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First, the sim is pretty good as is, and helps me a lot. I fly with a Raptor and a TRex. I learnt loops, rolls using the sim, and after succes in the sim, it was succes on the real one as well. I had only a single crash with my Raptor, because of a technical problem (tail gone). A lot of crashes with the Trex, as I am not so careful with it.
Now I learn inverted flight. This time only in the sim, my skill is not reliable enough to try it on the real one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtz
The key is expert fliers helping fine tune the parameters.
I am way below expert. 8's, loops, rolls. I can't fly inverted stable enough, nor tail first or any wilder 3d. Working on it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtz
Example for constructive feedback is this:

- I have helicopter model xxxx with yyy engine, zzz blades etc. etc. It is set for mild 3d. I am progressing to holding the heli inverted low to the ground and can do tumbles and stationary rolls. I use ClearView model zzzz with the original settings.
One of my favorite helis is a Raptor 50, pretty stock but converted to electric. 62,5 cm CF blades, Neu 1912 motor, 10s Lipo, headspeed is 1900.

The most similar stock model in the sim is the Raptor 60. I lowered the cyclics to 25, tail to 30 to fit sensitivity to my real one.

Differences:

1. hovering
The real one is more stable, I easily keep it steady within a few centimeters, not much correction and concetration is necessary.
The sim model needs much more concentration, hard to keep steady within tens of centimeters.

2. full pitch, pedal to metal
The real one jumps faster upwards. In forward flight, acceleration and speed is more similar.

3. Sliding. Its not easy to describe, but it is the most important difference.
Flying ff, in turns, if the roll and yaw angle is not precise, the heli slides out of the intended line, builds altitude. This effect is much stronger with the sim then with the real one. I mean, the sim model slides more, builds more altitude. The real one is more "on rails".
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 11:35 AM
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Thanks for detailed feedback. Try the new version 4.60. This version address 1, 2 and may be 3 from your post. I have changed some parameters for Blade CP, TRex and Raptors helis. Now they are not that twitchy and the drag coef is closer to what should be.
The plane flight model is changed as well to improve on the flat spins. Now both edges (25% and 33%) do real flat spins quite nicelly.

Another change is switching the camera between the models using keyboard key "c" - now if you do net multyplay, you can switch the camera to follow the other model. The same if you have many models flying using the "Play flight path" feature. You can switch the camera to any model by repeatedly pressing "c".


Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com
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Last edited by skirtz; Nov 21, 2006 at 11:42 AM.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 11:57 AM
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Thanks.

The 4.60 is not accessible for download.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 12:16 PM
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Try now, I fixed the link. Thanks.

Stefan
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 12:23 PM
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Thanks, it's working now.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 01:16 PM
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Now, with the 4.60:

The general feeling is better then my previous 4.58 version.

I feel comfortable with the Raptor 60 (again, I have an eRaptor 50, that's my real heli reference, not a 60). Default tail and cyclic are similar to my real heli's settings for normal forward flight. (just lowered torkRotCoef as my heli has a very calm tail, Futaba GY401 and digital servo).
Maybe forward speed is a little bit low. The general feeling is pretty good.

The T-Rex is ok in hovering, but the forward speed and acceleration is too low. And there is a strange behavior: if I pull the elevator, it rapidly accelerates, it feels much faster in entering the loop, then in the previous forward flight.

(It's just my subjective opinion, maybe my mistake etc.)

I am curios what are the other pilots opinions.

---------

I tried to modify the color scheme of the helis. I downloaded AC3d, but not familiar with it at all. I was able to modify the color of the skids etc. but not the cockpit transparent glass. What is the trick?
My primary target was a high-contrast, luminous front side, anything but black, to improve visibility for better, easier orientation.
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Last edited by mmormota; Nov 21, 2006 at 01:26 PM.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmormota
Now, with the 4.60:

I feel comfortable with the Raptor 60 (again, I have an eRaptor 50, that's my real heli reference, not a 60). Default tail and cyclic are similar to my real heli's settings for normal forward flight. (just lowered torkRotCoef as my heli has a very calm tail, Futaba GY401 and digital servo).
Maybe forward speed is a little bit low. The general feeling is pretty good.

The T-Rex is ok in hovering, but the forward speed and acceleration is much too low. And there is a strange behavior: if I pull the elevator, it rapidly accelerates, it feels much faster in the loop, then in the previous forward flight.

(It's just my subjective opinion, maybe my mistake etc.)

I am curios what are the other pilots opinions.

---------

I tried to modify the color scheme of the helis. I downloaded AC3d, but not familiar with it at all. I was able to modify the color of the skids etc. but not the cockpit transparent glass. What is the trick?
My primary target was a high-contrast, luminous front side, anything but black, to improve visibility for better, easier orientation.
Go to advanced settings and modify this parameter:
dragCoef xxx

Lower value results in less drag and higher top speed. Let me know what are your values for Raptor 60 and for TRex 450.

Feeling faster in the loop - this is because the top speed was probably restricted by to high drag coeficient. Let me know if lowering the drag makes in loop feel better.

Did you notice less twitchy hover (more controllable) and more prononced pitch control?

Regarding changing models with ac3d:

Since all model parts are texture mapped, the color of the part depends on the base part color and the color from the texture map. If you add a small collored square to the model texture and texture map the windshield to that square, you will be able to change the screen color.


Thanks,
Stefan

http://rcflightsim.com


PS: I think the best part of ClearView is the ability to load models created in ac3d. If you open another thread for creating CV models, I will be more than happy to assist with any help there.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 01:38 PM
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Great Job Stefan! The edge's are really flying great now. One thing I have noticed is that I can enter the flat spin with left rudder which is fine for right side up spins and for inverted it needs to be entered with the right rudder and with right rudder the plane just slides across the screen. Any suggestions?

-Russell
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtz
Go to advanced settings and modify this parameter:
dragCoef xxx

Lower value results in less drag and higher top speed. Let me know what are your values for Raptor 60 and for TRex 450.

Feeling faster in the loop - this is because the top speed was probably restricted by to high drag coeficient. Let me know if lowering the drag makes in loop feel better.

Did you notice less twitchy hover (more controllable) and more prononced pitch control?
What is the practical range of the drag coefficient?

Both the Raptor and the T-Rex is less twitchy now. The T-Rex is probably too calm.

The upward acceleration on high pitch is better now.

What exacltly Idle up is doing, I can't see any diferrence if it is on or off (Raptor60).

Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtz
If you add a small collored square to the model texture and texture map the windshield to that square, you will be able to change the screen color.
Thanks.
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Last edited by mmormota; Nov 21, 2006 at 02:07 PM.
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumadaaerowings
Great Job Stefan! The edge's are really flying great now. One thing I have noticed is that I can enter the flat spin with left rudder which is fine for right side up spins and for inverted it needs to be entered with the right rudder and with right rudder the plane just slides across the screen. Any suggestions?

-Russell
Thanks, I think they (the Edges) are pretty good right now.

Make sure you don't have forward speed. The flat spin needs almost zero forward speed and the plane must start falling while being in flat position.

To enter a flat spin, you must get the plane low on forward speed, in flat angle and falling down. The best way at least for me is to start with normal spin (left rudder, left on ailerons, throttle off) and then pump a throttle a bit, up elevator to bring up the nose and easy on ailerons to get the plane spin flatten. Another way to enter flat spin is from high alpha, balance with the throttle,add some rudder and control with the ailerons.

Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com
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