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Old Dec 14, 2012, 01:58 AM
KNS
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Switzerland, SO, Olten
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laying out the wings and building them:
* added ply-doublers to the dihedral braces, and epoxied these in place
* only after building the second wing half (and permanently joining the two), I will add the necessary structures for internal wing mounting. I will probably follow here (if I recall correctly) Franny B's method for the Valkyrie wing mounts: rods going through cabin formers and bits of ply attached directly on the wing main spar (as well as probably on both leading edge and trailing edge)
* pictures below are of work in progress: The left wing needs a lot of sanding - especially the leading edge. and propably a bit of light balsa spackle to keep the wing section as intended.
I just started on the right wing. To facilitate building the wing with the proper washout I made up a balsa jig for each outer wing panel. I then use tracing paper for the outer wing panel to make sure I know where everything should go. I did realize, though, that the drawings of the two wings might not be perfectly identical. *Mental note to myself to keep a close eye on this*
* The plans indicate that washout should be added. If you extend from the outer most wing rib (W13) to the edge of the trailing edge - that's where I set max washout to be approx. 8-9mm
*I decided to build the main wing such that it is perfectly horizontal on the top side. That means that the taper of the outer main spar has to be on the lower side, which seemed to match more closely with the drawings on the plan. Even if that's not the way its supposed to be, I should build both wing halves symmetrically. It certainly is easier to build wings this way considering the recommended addition of washout to the outer wing panel - it just fits this way.
* With the wings, again, all parts need a lot of sanding (beyond blue lines).
* For most joints I used Uhu hart (balsa cement), and thick CA. Thick CA is perfect for adding the cap-strips on the bottom of each rib.
* Make sure you pad the ribs according to plans.
* build order of the wings was: 1) build/ pin trailing edge to plan, 2) build main spar and pin to plan, 3) bring in the ribs 4) add the wing tip bits 5) add the leading edge 6) add top sheeting 7) add bottom cap strips. Always with a lot of sanding/checking in between. Leave rib supports (I use triangular balsa strips) until the very end in place, and don't forget that the ribs need padding on the front
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 06:04 PM
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Valencia, CA
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Looks very good so far. I am quite interested in this build, as I have an unbuilt 60" Southerner II short kit [Vintage 1 (Leo Smith) redesign for R/C] from Manzano Laser Works. It should be interesting to see how it compares with the Ben Buckle kit. Mine will be electric. I have most of the additional material required for the short kit, but need to make enough space to lay out that monster.

Pete G.
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 03:00 AM
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Southampton, UK
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On the 60" size, the formers stick out from the stringers at the 4 " corners" at 1.30am, 10.30 pm etc and the model benefits from an additional stringer at each of those locations and altring the spacing slightly on the rest of the stringers to even the spacing.

I also lengthened the nose ( scaled to 72" span from vintage1's plan and referenced to BB's ). by approx 1.5" needed to get CG reasonable. I had electric motor and battery inserted thru cooling hatch right at front so right under motor. See my thread on this

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1303763

john
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:20 AM
KNS
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Switzerland, SO, Olten
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Thanks a lot, John, for the suggestions on additional stringers. I will finish the wings and then plan how to modify the fuselage.I will go electric and I already have all the avionics, but need to think how to modify the wooden structures. If at all possible I would like to keep the outside looks as per plans, but clearly the CG needs to be spot on.
Would it be possible for you to show a picture of the front of your S72? I would love to see how you actually built the front hatch. I am familiar with Leo Smith`s (vintage1) plan, but couldn`t fully see in your pics/vid how you actually built these structures.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:28 AM
KNS
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Switzerland, SO, Olten
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@ Pete,
well, you won`t need an insane amount of space for building - wing halves are around 30 inches and also for the fuselage some 3-4 foot bench space should be plenty. Pretty much a kitchen table should suffice for most of the build. Well, maybe check with the "government" first (if appicable) ...
Anyway, would be great to see another S60 flyinging. Show pics, if you can!
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KNS View Post
Would it be possible for you to show a picture of the front of your S72? I would love to see how you actually built the front hatch. I am familiar with Leo Smith`s (vintage1) plan, but couldn`t fully see in your pics/vid how you actually built these structures.
KNS,
Pics added to my blog.

You can see 2 almost identical liteply bulkheads. Locating pegs and neodine magnets put in place between the bulkheads which were then lightly glued together at edges and then incorporated into the construction of the fuselage. After completing construction of the fuselage including the nose and sanding to shape etc, a sharp modelling knife was inserted between the 2 bulkheads and the nose seperated off for completion of motor mount etc. Any ragged edges formed during the cutting apart were easily sanded out on flat sandpaper. The nose was then put back in place for covering - no gluing this time. Sharp knife seperated tham again to complete.
Lipo is now as far forward as it can get. With my Southerner's nose extended about 1.5", the cg came out on the button ( lucky ). I think vintage1's prototype had a heavy geared brushed motor which helped keep cg in place with the shorter nose

john
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 08:18 AM
KNS
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Switzerland, SO, Olten
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It has been a while since I last posted here - as it so happens I got side-trapped on a very interesting project I "had to" (and "quickly" ) take care of. Together with a friend we set about building two DLGs by Frans Bal, called "Mimi". 1m / 40inch span, and the airframe as pictured is 119 grams - add another 30g for the avionics - still a reasonably light plane, in spite of 25g I spent on fully glassing the wing top and bottom.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 08:21 AM
KNS
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Switzerland, SO, Olten
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354 Posts
Good, back to the southerner. And thanks so much to you, John, for the pics on the hatches you build into your machine. I am now working on the right wing, essentially repeating the process on the left wing. This time I am building with more white wood glue instead of UHU hart, and will use CA whereever I feel I won`t need to sand too much in the future.
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 08:25 AM
KNS
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Switzerland, SO, Olten
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Finally for today, here are some of the important bits. Servos are Futaba S3003s, motor is a maytech 3542 with 1050kv, props will be 10x5 or 11x5, we shall see. 40A ESC/BEC and 3S 2200mah Lipo for starters. Wheels are 3inch, the spinner is 56mm diameter (something like 2 1/5 inch), as is called for on the plan. Will need to file out the spinner to hold the prop, as the blades are slightly wider than provided openings.
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 03:52 AM
KNS
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Switzerland, SO, Olten
Joined Dec 2012
354 Posts
The right wing is coming together. As feared, both wings are off in the outer wing panels by approx 4mm (1/6"). Inner wing panels are only 1-2 mm off. I shall attribute 2mm off to my own inexperience building, but I am also sure that left- and right wing drawings are not identical.
Anyways, this build is being fun, and dryfitting the wing halves together is, if anything, a great boost to my motivation. I am pretty convinced now that I shall go for silk instead of solartex as covering. Never done this before, either, so this plane might be as good a start as any.
Lessons learned:
1) Build jigs wherever possible. I think I might actually "want" to build another Southerner, just to implement the lessons I learned and to have a spotless hangar queen
2) Redraw plans (e.g. Inkscape), if not already available, to make sure structures are symmetrical. I will keep going with this set of plans, though, to finish the job "as intended"
3) I really like white UHU woodglue. Great stuff - open for 10min, "dry" after one hour, no stink. That`s better than the balsa cement (UHU hart), plus the white glue is great also in filling gaps.
4) Timewise, the second wing will take only about 1/4 of what I spend on the first wing. I learned I can be a little more bold on how to get things together, and still do a job as good as the first.
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 03:56 AM
KNS
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Switzerland, SO, Olten
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motivation booster. Quite an elegant structure, I have chosen to build, hey . Nothing to beat an "old" elliptical wing structure - that`s what a wing should look like. Never mind the build quality, hey. Another handful of planes and I shall get closer
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Old Mar 16, 2013, 06:40 PM
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Ilkley, West Yorkshire, UK
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Originally Posted by KNS View Post
As feared, both wings are off in the outer wing panels by approx 4mm (1/6"). Inner wing panels are only 1-2 mm off. I shall attribute 2mm off to my own inexperience building, but I am also sure that left- and right wing drawings are not identical.

2) Redraw plans (e.g. Inkscape), if not already available, to make sure structures are symmetrical.
A somewhat simpler remedy for this ailment is to photocopy the wing plan mirror image (ie reversed). I'm lucky that at work I have access to a decent copier that has this feature and does A3 paper. This will usually give big enough sections for most multipanel wings. I would think that copyshops would be able to do this fairly cheaply for you.

Much simpler than slaving over a computer screen and guarantees a symmetrical plan!
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Old Mar 17, 2013, 12:32 AM
KNS
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Thanks for the suggestion, Colonel.You are right, and I was even considering that, but then I realized that a copy of the wingplan would be at least 30 CHF (22 pounds), so I decided to go with the full experience and build the plan as re-designed by Ben Buckle in 1986. I did briefly consider oiling the plan, though, but then regarded the mess in the workshop to be sufficient already... If I could find a somewhat cheaper source of plans-copies (and full-size scans, for that matter), then I would gladly spend the money. Well, maybe I start printing plans somewhere across the border...
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Old Mar 17, 2013, 04:39 AM
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Thanks for the suggestion, Colonel.You are right, and I was even considering that, but then I realized that a copy of the wingplan would be at least 30 CHF (22 pounds), so I decided to go with the full experience and build the plan as re-designed by Ben Buckle in 1986. I did briefly consider oiling the plan, though, but then regarded the mess in the workshop to be sufficient already... If I could find a somewhat cheaper source of plans-copies (and full-size scans, for that matter), then I would gladly spend the money. Well, maybe I start printing plans somewhere across the border...
Oiling the plan is actually not very messy if done with care and a minimum of cooking oil. Or, tape the plan to a window and draw the main spar, rib, TE and LE positions on the reverse with pencil. It always pays to spend some time checking the accuracy of a plan - especially old and often copied ones. This applies not only to the wings but just as much to things like fuselage formers and ribs, which often don't match.
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Old Mar 17, 2013, 07:12 PM
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New Zealand, Auckland, Papakura
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Photocopied plans

You are so right Sundancer. Built a 2m glider once off a photocopied plan. Silly me did not check things and wing saddle was way out compared to wing chord due to 'stretch' as plan went through machine. Lesson learned that day!! What's the old saying, "once caught, twice shy". I have used the transfer method against a window which works well and ensures a true match for each wing.
Allen
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