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Old Feb 07, 2010, 01:30 AM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
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What kind of charger have you got for 6S~8S? Have you got the batteries already (either 6S, 7S or 8S)? If I was starting fresh, I'd probably go 7S with the G3 4000mAh to 5000mAh CX (25C), and pick a prop in the range of 17x10/17x12/18x10. If you have a DUO or 2x NET chargers, get the Split-pack version of the pack (those should be at some dealers already, or coming soon), and you can charge in SYNC mode at fairly high C rates.

Or, if you have other models that can use 4S 4000, perhaps two separate packs of CX4000 4S (wired series for flight), with 16x8 prop to start. The only drawback to 8S I can think of (assuming it is 4000mAh max) is that you may want a bigger prop disk for downline braking.

That's why 7S may be the sweet spot, imo.

I don't see 6S as a first choice, unless you have the pack already, and an ESC that won't be stressed by the ~80+ A that you might end up wanting for performance...

David

Quote:
Originally Posted by stever60 View Post
David,

I am finishing a Helios 90 and have a ZS4035-12 in the front. I am still undecided on the battery cell count and would appreciate your input. I plan to do Sportsman and occasional Intermediate competing with it.

I'm debating over 6 cell which will keep me right at 7LB or 8 cell which will push me up near 7LB 10oz. I can't decide if the reduced weight will compensate enough for the reduced voltage. I don't want it to fly underpowered but on the otherhand, ballistic performance is not necessary either.

Your expert input is appreciated.

-Steve
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Old Feb 07, 2010, 01:31 AM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingin' Wayne View Post
Okay maybe I didn't use the correct terminology. When you grab the two motor sections and tug in opposite directions, there should be a very slight gap. Could someone please tell me how much it should be on a zs2213? THANKS!
As long as the circlip goes on without interference, you have enough clearance. I would shoot for "just enough to get the circlip on without interference", to about 0.25mm free play as maximum. But up to around 0.5mm should be no problem performance-wise.

David
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Old Feb 07, 2010, 07:54 AM
I like the violent stuff!
Costa Mesa, CA
Joined Oct 2004
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Thanks guys, I'm at 0.25mm, so IF there is a next time I'll shoot for a little less. I already put it back together with Locktite on the set screws and it flys fine, so I'll leave well enough alone.
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Old Feb 07, 2010, 01:04 PM
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Hi David,

Thanks for the feedback. For charging, I have a Celpro 10S. Regarding batteries, I have 3S & 4S for other craft however, for this plane I'll buy what I need just for the Helios, probably 5 sets.

I have a CC HV85 so I will also have the added weight of a radio battery for the CCBEC I have.

Originally I had planned 8S but after reading about the new ZS motors and reevaluating the AUW, I began wondering if 8S was necessary. By 7S, are you refering to a 3S and a 4S in series? Never considered that before.

Again, thanks for the input.

-Steve
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Old Feb 08, 2010, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stever60 View Post
David,

I am finishing a Helios 90 and have a ZS4035-12 in the front. I am still undecided on the battery cell count and would appreciate your input. I plan to do Sportsman and occasional Intermediate competing with it.

I'm debating over 6 cell which will keep me right at 7LB or 8 cell which will push me up near 7LB 10oz. I can't decide if the reduced weight will compensate enough for the reduced voltage. I don't want it to fly underpowered but on the otherhand, ballistic performance is not necessary either.

Your expert input is appreciated.

-Steve
Steve, i just set up a Helios 90e recently and am loving it. I already had a Z40series motor and new Hyp G3 CX 5000mAH 6S battery packs so decided to use those for the setup and if it didnt work i could look at other motor-battery combos.
The motor is a Z4025-12 (previous series) spinning an APCe 15x7 prop and the performance is very very good, no scarcity of power on the uplines even towards the end of the flight. I was pulling 71amps after the first four cycles of the battery packs . I havent taken a watt reading recently. After a 7 minute flight i'm putting back in 2800-2900mAh back in the battery.
Hope that helps some.
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Old Feb 08, 2010, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drstillpatient View Post
Steve, i just set up a Helios 90e recently and am loving it. I already had a Z40series motor and new Hyp G3 CX 5000mAH 6S battery packs so decided to use those for the setup and if it didnt work i could look at other motor-battery combos.
The motor is a Z4025-12 (previous series) spinning an APCe 15x7 prop and the performance is very very good, no scarcity of power on the uplines even towards the end of the flight. I was pulling 71amps after the first four cycles of the battery packs . I havent taken a watt reading recently. After a 7 minute flight i'm putting back in 2800-2900mAh back in the battery.
Hope that helps some.
I'm thinking about getting the Heliose 90
Looks like my Hyp G3s 3s+4s=7s 4000mah & the new zs 4035 will work fine,
many thanks for the info.
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Old Feb 08, 2010, 07:46 PM
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NipponDave's Avatar
American in Japan
Joined Mar 2001
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Hi Steve,

Hyperion makes 7S packs. If I was going 7S with your setup, I'd probably choose the HP-LG335-4200-7S 35C pack. Your CellPro would be able to charge that pack at about 9.3A peak, so around 30~40 minute charge times depending on how much cap. remains at end of each flight. I think FMA should have adapters for the Hyperion 7S packs, but better check that.

Given the charge rates available, I would think that 3 packs would be plenty for near-constant flying.

G3 Datasheet

David

Steve - I have some futher advice that is slightly OT. Email me at supply2 "ATmark" aircraftjapan.com for that, if you like.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stever60 View Post
Hi David,

Thanks for the feedback. For charging, I have a Celpro 10S. Regarding batteries, I have 3S & 4S for other craft however, for this plane I'll buy what I need just for the Helios, probably 5 sets.

I have a CC HV85 so I will also have the added weight of a radio battery for the CCBEC I have.

Originally I had planned 8S but after reading about the new ZS motors and reevaluating the AUW, I began wondering if 8S was necessary. By 7S, are you refering to a 3S and a 4S in series? Never considered that before.

Again, thanks for the input.

-Steve
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Old Feb 08, 2010, 08:01 PM
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American in Japan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan W View Post
I'm thinking about getting the Heliose 90
Looks like my Hyp G3s 3s+4s=7s 4000mah & the new zs 4035 will work fine,
many thanks for the info.
Also, keep in mind that Air Craft World (japan) has the previous "Z" series motors on super sale. They remain excellent motors, and are a good option is you're looking for some savings. The Z4035-12 would be my pick for the Helios 90e. You'd need to get the Backmount set as well:

http://aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=3651
http://aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=3665

David
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 01:26 AM
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USA, TN, Knoxville, Cedar Bluff
Joined Feb 2005
862 Posts
I have a question about Hyperion motors. I'm thinking of buying a 78" EF Extra that should weigh 11.5 lbs AUW, run a 20x10 prop and I'd like to get 2300 watts. I have some 4s 3700 25c Rhinos that I will run in series for 8s. Will the ZS4035-12(299kv) or ZS4045-10(292kv) work in this plane or would it be pushing either too hard with the 20x10 prop? Thanks. Matt
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Old Feb 14, 2010, 10:17 PM
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Boise, ID
Joined Dec 2008
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What motor and ESC and batteries for H&M Corsair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave View Post
Fantastic! Glad to hear that the Apprentice has got a new lease on life...

Before you buy the motor, please let us know all the details on your Corsair, such as intended prop size/pitch and number of blades. And also how much speed you are looking for. We can help make sure you get the right motor, battery and ESC for the job...

Cheers,

David
David,

That was from back on October 18. Well, rather than do my own research , I'll take the easy way out and take you up on your offer, if I may impose on you. I'm ready to start building my Corsair, my first balsa ARF, and second plane after the Apprentice (which still flies GREAT, btw, thanks to that Hyperion motor), so may ask for advice on motor, ESC, battery?

Here are details, from the manual:

H&M Corsair ARF 7 3/4 lbs. Wingspan 59.5",and wing area 650 sq. in.

Recommended motors: E-Flite 60, AXI 4130. I'll need a back mounted motor.

Recommended ESC's: Jeti Advance PLUS 70 Amp, Phoenix 80 Amp.

Recommended batteries: Two 4000 mAh 3s2p LiPO or equivalent, (used in series). (But, I have two Thunder Power Pro Lite V2 4350mAh 3S 20C Contin/40C Burst, with EC3 connectors, that I use with the Apprentice and intended to use on the Corsair, but I'm flexible about that.)

Prop: Others have flown with 15 x 10, and a 16 x 10. Another flies with a 15 x 7 MAS three-blade, with a Hyperion G3 6cell 5000 mAh, pulling less than 1000 watts. Others use 14 x 7, 14 x 9, three-blade. I'd like to use a three blade prop eventually, for scale purposes, although I'll probably start out with an inexpensive two-blade APC in case I nose it over at first. I intend to get one of those spinner hubs from Vario Prop.

Let's see, what else? It has retracts and I have a JR791 retract servo on order. Do I need a BEC? One flies "with a Castle BEC set to 6V." Some fly with one, others don't.

Speed? Probably fly around at 50% throttle most of the time. Will take it easy, although it would be nice to have some power to pull it out of any tip stalls.

Does that help?

Tom
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Old Feb 14, 2010, 10:36 PM
c/f
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Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byHISgrace View Post
I have a question about Hyperion motors. I'm thinking of buying a 78" EF Extra that should weigh 11.5 lbs AUW, run a 20x10 prop and I'd like to get 2300 watts. I have some 4s 3700 25c Rhinos that I will run in series for 8s. Will the ZS4035-12(299kv) or ZS4045-10(292kv) work in this plane or would it be pushing either too hard with the 20x10 prop? Thanks. Matt

While the motor choice will be up to the task, you'll be near 100+amps so your batts wont cut it. looks like you'll need twice that in battery, 4950 Rhino will allow 100 amps for about 4 minutes...........

Your most likely going to be 10-12s, KV around 150-190 and/or less prop........
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Old Feb 15, 2010, 04:22 PM
Crashing into the sky!
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Auckland NZ
Joined Aug 2007
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Looks like my inrunner question got answered -

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=6281
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 12:08 AM
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United States, CA, Corona
Joined Dec 2008
29 Posts
ZS3014-12 with an APC 1-7

Quote:
Originally Posted by NipponDave View Post
Why? Our Zs22 sized adapter have about 8mm~8.5mm engagement, and never come loose. If other adapters have more engagement, that's fine, but I can't imagine having, or needing, more than 10mm.

D
Dave,

I just installed the SZ3014-12 in a Brio 10. I am showing 323w on my e-flite watt meter @ 31 amps. The battery is a fresh 3 cell 2200 30C Thunder Tiger at 11.1V and I have a 40a E-Flite speed control. The Hyperion motor test data shows 406watts at 10.52 volts with this motor. What I am getting now is about the same output power as the cheapie motor I replaced, although I have no idea how to measure how efficent the motor is. I can get much more power if I run an 11x8 but most of my packs are only 20C so that does me no good. Any suggestions?
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 10:07 AM
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Vernon, BC, Canada
Joined Dec 2000
2,897 Posts
are you getting more RPM on the same prop for the same input watss. That would indicate higher efficiency
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Old Feb 18, 2010, 09:01 PM
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United States, CA, Corona
Joined Dec 2008
29 Posts
Zs3014-12

No I have not yet put a tach on it to check. The output is way below what is shown by the Hyperion test data. I am getting 300 watts at 10.5v with the APC 10-7vs 406 watts shown for this motor. Even at 11.13 volts I am getting only 323 watts and I should be seeing in the area of 480 watts. No matter how efficient it may be the power with this prop is not even close.
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