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Old Feb 16, 2014, 02:16 AM
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PP1 a Simple to build, Easy to fly design

NOTE.... recommended builds

using the pic 1 plan lines

Indoors Recommended size a 17" ... use a KFm2 when you have 5 or 6mm EPP , using sub 5gm servos.. with something like a hyperion z1705-14 size motor (17gm size).. or the 2211-1700 ...19gm you want better than 1:1 thrust to weight.. the more the better...

new indoor build...recommended... 17" from 9mm EPP.. this one has no step and flies exactly the same as the KF version.. because it has no step layer the front has been strengthened with pallet strapping round the leading edge.. Its an easier build and without having the second layer to laminate uses a bit less adhesive..
motor used a 2211-1700 kv, on a 2s 500 lipo, with a 12A ESC , 8x4.3SF gws prop , 3x 4.4gm servos and an orange RX ..
The weight came in 0.2oz less than the KF version.. this setup is very good...
build here.. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...105719&page=17

outside 20" up.. 6mm depron has been good... dollar shop art board is also good
Ive done a 24" in KFm2 and a 30" version using cheap builders polystyrene, they are both great...
but I recommend using a KFm4 for the biggest build, with a doubled main layer and single layer steps.. the builders polystyrene is a bit soft so wont last as long..
Scale to suit the gear you've got handy..



The PP1 design is based on an old paper plane I used to make as a kid, it was simple to fold and one that would always go well..
below is the folding sequence for the kids model
It came up when talking with my flying buddy about the old days and I thought lets do it from foam..

So sketchup got running and the model was quickly drawn up..

The first build used 3mm depron and was a 16" span sized to work with the 1811-2900 motor indoor setup we have been using.. a wing of 200 to 225 sq inches area has been giving us a reasonable final weight model so that's what we used

The model is a KFm2..step on top design.. top step now shown coloured yellow... its not a 50% step, its at a lesser %age.. more a step for strength than effect. and it does add strength and damage resistance.. two layers are better than one..

there is a sketchup file in the zip, this will let you scale the model easily and quickly.. its saved from the latest version of sketchup , so if you need and older save let me know
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Old Feb 16, 2014, 02:28 AM
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EDIT note the first build has been simplified and modified... see post 69 for the new simpler build..
and http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...105719&page=17 for the new non KFm2 model

the V shaped body below is replaced with a 2 layered laminated spline, stiffened with pallet strapping.. see the last pic below..
and the top step shape was revised for a bit more wing stiffening..
Its easy to cut the gear into the spline, keeping it surrounded by EPP, and held on using velcro..

However .....
For the first model we used 3mm depron.. at a 16" span size
and the build pics are below show the next 19" EPP model...
...
The strapping on the depron is only across the span at the step, tape is used as décor and all control surfaces are fully covered to make them stiff.. wing tip fins and leading edge are also covered to add stiffness and strength.. hinges are all full length clear tape,
horns are from dental flossers, paper clips for the Z bends and CF pushrods
On the depron model I used EPP for the nose block, this is much better for spreading the impact and landing stresses

depron is lighter but EPP gives better bounce.. If you can get some then 5mm EPP is best for indoor bumps and bashes
depron with tape is however quite tough, its already had multiple bangs and is perfectly fine..

My first depron build lasted a season before it started looking tatty and bashed, my flying buddy's one is still being used, but he flies it more gentle than I do, he just likes to cruise around

The depron models flight proved so nice, both fast and slow, that Ive made a second bigger version in 5mm EPP.. this is at 19.5 span with a 20-25gm motor..
NOTE all the construction pics were taken when making the second bigger 19" EPP build.. the build method is the same for both.. the build was later simplified, with a simple layered spline and revised for better stiffening, to a correct shape step line..
please take a look at, and note the new revised step lines..

Dihedral angle ..the target is 20 degrees, but somehow my building hasn't achieved this, I must have flattened mine out as I stuck it all together... start with the 20* fold down but don't worry if you loose some... my first 3mm depron build flew at 16...my EPP build is only 12..My flying buddies small version is at 20.... and my latest 24" one was started with a 25* fold but has ended at 20...
So its not critical.. we havnt noticed any significant difference in flights, they are all easy... and capable...

NOTE.... the straight across KF steps were not the best for keeping the rear of the wing stiff.... the later revised step shape is best ..see post 4... and combined with a simple spline its now perfect
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Old Feb 16, 2014, 02:32 AM
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A video of the small one...
PP1 paper plane scale up... a really good flier with very fast responses .. its capable of high speed and wild aerobatics, so much so that I am having to lower the rates to fly it...

at the slow speed end its just the opposite , with its dihedral its very stable and easy ...using low power and low rates it floats around nicely ..
my buddy loves it , he prefers the nice and easy fliers and this does the job well

.
PP1 Maiden flight (4 min 59 sec)
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Old Feb 16, 2014, 02:36 AM
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here are the larger 19" sizes lines , the sketchup file and a pdf for the larger version

to resize this use the tape measure tool in sketchup and go across the span.. enter the new span in the measurements box and ok the resize

EDIT I have ended up with 17" EPP build as being the optimum for indoor flight.. a 17" fitted with a 17gm hyperon z1705-14 and a 8x4.3gws prop is a very good setup
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Old Feb 16, 2014, 02:54 AM
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16" setup 3mm depron build or 5mm EPP build

1811-2900 kv motor on 2s... 300-500 lipo.. now flown mostly on a 500 and a 1000 2s lipo for longer flights... this model easily handles the bigger battery
GWS 6x3 prop..
6A ESC... micro orange RX with 2gm servos for the lightest setup ..micro plugs and sockets.. which are still working fine after a years bashing about
or
any light weight RX standard pins, with 4.3gm servos standard plugs..

AUW 115 gms with a 300 lipo for a 2.7ozsqft loading
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Old Feb 16, 2014, 02:58 AM
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19.5" Setup 5mm EPP build

robot birds 15gm 2300kv motor or similar and up to a blue wonder 1700kv
GWS 8x4.3 prop
12A ESC..
standard orange 6ch RX ..
or http://robotbirds.com/catalog/produc...oducts_id=5883
3x 5gm servos.. all fairly light gear

AUW 6.8oz with a 500 2s lipo for a 3.2ozsqft loading..
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Old Feb 16, 2014, 04:48 AM
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Good One Dave !!!
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Old Feb 17, 2014, 09:36 AM
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Nice Dave. I was thinking about this exact and last week. When I a boy I had bunk beds and one of those hang down tile roofs above it. That was where I kept my paper airplane hanger. Anyhow last week while outside with the kids I was trying decide what would be a good trainer that would be easy to fly and could handle hitting the ground. I think you nailed it, I will get one flying this spring and see how the kids like it
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Old Feb 18, 2014, 02:32 AM
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Fly it on low power with reduced control movements and its slow, very stable and easy to fly ..
The small one , I first built, is for indoors... for outside and training go bigger, go up to a 20-22 inch span using 6mm depron.. Use a Blue Wonder 1300kv with 3s or a 1700kv with 2s or any other similarly cheap motor up to about 100W with a 12A esc and 5gm servos..
Bigger always results in a more docile model, so you can go as big as you fancy... however going bigger requires slightly more expense on the build and on the gear.. so for training I would keep it as cheap as possible..

The other simple fun model I similarly recommend for learning on is a Nutball , again build at 24", that also is also very stable and easy at low speeds and low movements.. the nutball is simpler, using 3 ch, rudder elevator and motor ..the PP1 uses all the 4 channels so gets you used to having both ailerons and rudder to steer with..
I love the nutball but I think the PP1 from my point of view has it beat, better fast rolls and easier hover .... neither will knife edge easily...

and later powered up a bit both can be highly aerobatic
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Old Feb 18, 2014, 10:16 PM
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here is the lines plan for a 24" size.. its suited for blue wonder motors or similar, something up to and around the 100W size

EDIT I well overpowered mine..lol with a 150W axi motor that was going spare.. flown on 3s with a 9x5 prop its great
don't be frightened of using a bigger motor the throttle will control all the extra power... more power is more fun.... lol
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Old Mar 03, 2014, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap View Post
here is the lines plan for a 24" size.. its suited for blue wonder motors or similar, something up to and around the 100W size
Thank you dave for another grate thread
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 01:51 AM
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The 19" version was flying well... then I hit a roof beam and the motor stopped working... I prefer the smaller version for indoor tight spaces.. that is the 16"er, it needs a lot less airspace...and being lighter feels nicer..
the 19 is ok in our hall, but with more power I got it up too high, too fast, and bang it was done for the night...

I had to swap the motor... it runs with no load but wont run with a prop on it.. I suspect the wiring might be only just holding together, a poor joint or such.. but cant be bothered to sort it at the moment...Ive too many motors ,swapping is easier..

EDIT while the 19 is flyable indoors it is a fraction too big for me .. I have settled on a 17" EPP version using a 17gm motor .. and a 16" EPP version that uses the 1811-2900 motor for my indoor sessions..
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Old Mar 14, 2014, 11:04 AM
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An indoor session had two of the smaller depron versions flying together..
watch in HD full screen for best views
.
Depron PP1 indoors (5 min 57 sec)
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Old Mar 14, 2014, 12:28 PM
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EDIT out side the 19" EPP version is great... watch in HD full screen for best views

and now by early 2015.....Ive also made 24 and a 30" span versions.... both truly lovely fliers
.
Depron PP1 19 EPP version outdoors (8 min 5 sec)
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Old Mar 14, 2014, 01:04 PM
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Pretty cool Dave, may have to throw one together for nostalgia if anything
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