Originally Posted by solentlife

OK - now home from travels and in a few minutes had this little baby together and ready to go.
Nigel

Remember to TONE down the throws.. this plane is really unflyable if you have too much throws...

Originally Posted by chessgame

Remember to TONE down the throws.. this plane is really unflyable if you have too much throws...

I note that many are talking about 5 - 6mm DR on aileron but very little said about elevators.

If anyone would like to quote measurements in mm or inches ... not degrees. Measured at root up / down for full and DR ?

Would really appreciate the info.

Nigel

Just as follow on from last post ...

Mine is set up as, throws measured at inboard ends of surfaces :

Aileron Full 10mm, DR 5mm Expo is 60% both

Elevator Full 10mm, DR 5mm Expo is 60% both

Rudder is just at factory setting and plenty of expo for ground work.

I've left quite a large throw on full rate but serious expo to tame it down until I find my ideal setting. The 5mm I reckon is cruise around setting ... but all remains to be seen once she's in the air.

nigel

well expanding on my last post the aircraft is now dead.
I invested in 3 4s 1800 which are 60g heavier than the 3s 2200. it had plenty of power but at roughly 1.2 kg and a mere 800mm wingspan its still (was) a flying brick.
throws were at maximum with 50% expo if I remember right. at full power its fast but at 1/3 throttle it was falling from the sky. basically I was performing (what I thought it was) a controlled stall/spin but it would not recover and nosedived into the ground.
aircraft fuselage is now in two pieces, wings intact and could be mended but I'm not going to bother as I felt nothing as it crashed. I did made some pics the day before I crashed it so will update with actual flying weights

Originally Posted by ckleanth

well expanding on my last post the aircraft is now dead.
I invested in 3 4s 1800 which are 60g heavier than the 3s 2200. it had plenty of power but at roughly 1.2 kg and a mere 800mm wingspan its still (was) a flying brick.
throws were at maximum with 50% expo if I remember right. at full power its fast but at 1/3 throttle it was falling from the sky. basically I was performing (what I thought it was) a controlled stall/spin but it would not recover and nosedived into the ground.
aircraft fuselage is now in two pieces, wings intact and could be mended but I'm not going to bother as I felt nothing as it crashed. I did made some pics the day before I crashed it so will update with actual flying weights

Why was yours 1.2kgs ??????

Mine ready to take battery is 524gr ... add a 4S 1600 Zippy Compact now 698gr .. a 3S 2200 Turnigy blue gives 716gr - WITH WHEELS and the extra few gr's for the Pilot figure .......... a long way of 1.2kg !!

Nigel

ok. finally came down to measuring it.

Suggest the following for maiden :
elevator : 4-6 mm . 50% expo
ailerons : 5-7 mm . 50 % expo

Originally Posted by solentlife

I note that many are talking about 5 - 6mm DR on aileron but very little said about elevators.

If anyone would like to quote measurements in mm or inches ... not degrees. Measured at root up / down for full and DR ?

Would really appreciate the info.

Nigel

Originally Posted by ckleanth

basically I was performing (what I thought it was) a controlled stall/spin but it would not recover and nosedived into the ground.

I agree. I am not sure if it wise to do a stall spin for such a plane especially at recommended setup of 7x6 prop which is built for speed.

And i dont recommend stalling this plane when it is not dialed in.
It is defintely not a "forgiving" plane.

The good news for those who like speed is i ran this plane against funjets recently and i found it have a better turning/banking ability.

looking to setup some foam pylon race.

Originally Posted by chessgame

ok. finally came down to measuring it.

Suggest the following for maiden :
elevator : 4-6 mm . 50% expo
ailerons : 5-7 mm . 50 % expo

OK - cheers ... FYI - I'm a brutal flyer and usually have more movement than many like.

Question - your measurements there - are they DR figures or full rate ? I assume they are DR reduced rates ?

Nigel

Originally Posted by solentlife

Why was yours 1.2kgs ??????

Mine ready to take battery is 524gr ... add a 4S 1600 Zippy Compact now 698gr .. a 3S 2200 Turnigy blue gives 716gr - WITH WHEELS and the extra few gr's for the Pilot figure .......... a long way of 1.2kg !!

Nigel

sorry mate I remembered wrong info.

Real Weight
Original LG 3S 883g
Original LG 4S 914g
New Carbon Fibre LG 3S 944g
New Carbon Fibre LG 4S 975g

I changed the LG because the stock was... well shite
my CF LG was proportionally sligtly bigger for the A/C but it was better than the stock one (becasue it would actually take the punishment) but with unfortunately a slight increase in weight

weight brakedown original configuration
Sbach 342 800mm (PNF) pylon thing 883g
fuselage & rear wing & motor & esc & 7x5 prop with spinner 436g
main wing 148g
receiver and telemetry 62g
original Landing Gear with wheels 40g
Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 3S 45~90C Lipo Pac 197g
the above should sum 883g

with the original LG and a 4S turingy it was 914g
Turnigy nano-tech 1800mah 4S 65~130C Lipo Pack 228g

I was interested to see if it could prop hang so at 0mph speed
(data from APC propellers website) :

prop 7x5 3S 15500 RPM
Weight (g) 914.4
Thrust (N) 9.0
Thrust (Lbf) 2.0165

prop 7x5E 3S 15500 RPM
Weight (g) 924.1
Thrust (N) 9.1
Thrust (Lbf) 2.038


prop 7x5 3S 20000 RPM
Weight (g) 1574.8
Thrust (N) 15.4
Thrust (Lbf) 3.473

prop 7x5 3S 20000 RPM
Weight (g) 1591.1
Thrust (N) 15.6
Thrust (Lbf) 3.509

I cant be bothered to calculate the stall speed considering the actual wing profile and the real weight, but I can tell you it it would be a relatively high velocity..

Originally Posted by ckleanth

sorry mate I remembered wrong info.

Real Weight
Original LG 3S 883g
Original LG 4S 914g
New Carbon Fibre LG 3S 944g
New Carbon Fibre LG 4S 975g
........
weight brakedown original configuration
Sbach 342 800mm (PNF) pylon thing 883g
fuselage & rear wing & motor & esc & 7x5 prop with spinner 436g
main wing 148g
receiver and telemetry 62g
original Landing Gear with wheels 40g
Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 3S 45~90C Lipo Pac 197g
the above should sum 883g

with the original LG and a 4S turingy it was 914g
Turnigy nano-tech 1800mah 4S 65~130C Lipo Pack 228g
.........

WOW that's heavy .... even if I had a 2200 4S in mine - I'm not even close to yours ...lets use your battery as example ie your Nano 1800 at 228gr + my 524gr frame weight = 752gr.

But I thought you were talking about the threads model - the Edge 540 .... the Sbach - I have no idea ...

Nigel

Originally Posted by solentlife

OK - cheers ... FYI - I'm a brutal flyer and usually have more movement than many like.

Question - your measurements there - are they DR figures or full rate ? I assume they are DR reduced rates ?

Nigel

I am using a JR TX hence i tone down the throws via flight mode.
ie 50% of original full throws with 50% expo. The figures i quoted earlier is the 50%

The max throw i tried was 75% of original... and it was really bad even at slower speed . My experience with fast planes is that when ur plane speed is really fast, u need to tone it down the throws even further when u full throttle..otherwise even the simple banking or turning is ridiculous to control.

Originally Posted by ckleanth

sorry mate I remembered wrong info.

I cant be bothered to calculate the stall speed considering the actual wing profile and the real weight, but I can tell you it it would be a relatively high velocity..

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Wow ! that is an eye opener photos... and data !
dude no offense, but u got the plane all wrong...

1. I think u r expecting this plane to be a 3D plane like the UMX micro beast .
which is not. It is pylon racer though it looks similiar

2. your LG, wow.. that is some heavy duty LG ... i am not sure what kind of "landing" you are doing... but what is the point of having a LG that can take it when the plane cant ? The point i am making is , if u had a bad landing and there is part that needs to break, which part do you prefer to break. plane or LG. I rather break my LG any day compared to my plane.

3. prop hang at 0 mph ? did you even check the surface throws (not just the amount of throw) on this bird to do this ? No sane 3D i know will have said this plane can do 3d . The surface throws is really too small. Unless you had gyro equipment, i really doubt this plane can do any 3D.

I will suggest you consider the dynam sbach 1.2m for 3d.
It looks suitable for your LG and if a docile 3d plane is really what you want.
But dont go trying to clock 140 mph speed on dynam and find that it does not work. No plane can be all things. ie 3D, aerobatics, speed, etc.

I just re - read my post, and want to say i didnt like my tone of writing.
But i dont know how to say it otherwise.

Not meant to offend but to inform.

Originally Posted by chessgame

Wow ! that is an eye opener photos... and data !
dude no offense, but u got the plane all wrong...

1. I think u r expecting this plane to be a 3D plane like the UMX micro beast .
which is not. It is pylon racer though it looks similiar

2. your LG, wow.. that is some heavy duty LG ... i am not sure what kind of "landing" you are doing... but what is the point of having a LG that can take it when the plane cant ? The point i am making is , if u had a bad landing and there is part that needs to break, which part do you prefer to break. plane or LG. I rather break my LG any day compared to my plane.

3. prop hang at 0 mph ? did you even check the surface throws (not just the amount of throw) on this bird to do this ? No sane 3D i know will have said this plane can do 3d . The surface throws is really too small. Unless you had gyro equipment, i really doubt this plane can do any 3D.

I will suggest you consider the dynam sbach 1.2m for 3d.
It looks suitable for your LG and if a docile 3d plane is really what you want.
But dont go trying to clock 140 mph speed on dynam and find that it does not work. No plane can be all things. ie 3D, aerobatics, speed, etc.

Originally Posted by chessgame

I just re - read my post, and want to say i didnt like my tone of writing.
But i dont know how to say it otherwise.

Not meant to offend but to inform.

I have ti agree with you that the model is not designed for 3D .. it is put out as a speed machine ... two totally different animals.

I have a number of models that have excessive power to weight and can climb and accelerate vertically ... but slow them down to hover and they just cannot do it...... they topple over.

I'm waiting suitable so I can put this baby in the air and see what she can do ... I expect high speed, to take care when gliding in, keep speed up in turns ... basically fly a hot racer style.

Nigel

Here's meassured data for anyone looking at this model as per standard set-up with wheels etc.

Model weight with wheels w/o battery : 524 gr

With 4S 1600 35C Zippy Compact RTG : 698 gr
With 3S 2200 35C Turnigy Blue RTG : 718 gr

Motor on Wattmeter :

3S 2200 = 19A / 225W
4S 1600 = 28A / 405W

Ailerons 10mm full, 5mm DR
Elevators 10mm full, 5mm DR

Expo is 60% on all settings ...

Control throws will be adjusted once flown.

CoG came out about 30mm back from LE at root

Nigel