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Old Jul 08, 2016, 12:22 AM
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Largest EDF you can buy today...

Hello all- I've spent the last several days searching for a large EDF in the 20kg static thrust range, but keep coming up with nothing but one-offs that are not available, and the HST-215 (still not shipping, in development since 2012).

Is there anyone out there that makes an EDF that can do 20kg or better in static thrust?
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Last edited by Zephrant; Jul 08, 2016 at 12:23 AM. Reason: (typo)
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Old Jul 08, 2016, 12:55 AM
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Not worth your time searching, for that thrust caliber go for turbine power.
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Old Jul 08, 2016, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephrant View Post
Hello all- I've spent the last several days searching for a large EDF in the 20kg static thrust range, but keep coming up with nothing but one-offs that are not available, and the HST-215 (still not shipping, in development since 2012).

Is there anyone out there that makes an EDF that can do 20kg or better in static thrust?
Vasa 145 is ready, the 300 I don't know...

http://en.vasamodel-eshop.cz/d/vasafan-145-1000061/





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Old Jul 08, 2016, 11:47 AM
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Unfortunately, a turbine (which would be fun) won't work for this application.

Thanks for the link on the Vasa- I had not found that one. I've emailed to see if it is purchasable.

That 300 series looks VERY nice! Would love to test-run one.
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Old Jul 08, 2016, 02:28 PM
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Zephrant,
Is your interest a model aircraft application or some other use?
The Schübeler DS-195HST & 215HST series is actually in initial production, but very limited numbers, and delivery could be several months.
The power input requirements for your envisioned thrust level is quite high, expect a large controller and heavy 14s LiPo load.
- Mike
www.performance-edf.biz
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Old Jul 08, 2016, 04:42 PM
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Mike- It is a non-typical RC aircraft use. I am still interested in the 215HST, although the price is very high for my application. I am a bit concerned that they have been in development for over four years. That tells me that it is not a priority for them, so since they are not currently available I'm not confident of being able to receive one in the next 4-6 weeks.

I'll definitely keep an eye on them.

Looks like the Vasa 145 is available for shipment. At 14kg, it may be good to get started with while I wait for a larger unit.
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Old Jul 08, 2016, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephrant View Post
........(snip).......that it is not a priority for them, so since they are not currently available I'm not confident of being able to receive one in the next 4-6 weeks. .......(snip)......
.
Schübeler's "priority" is engineering and producing something that will perform and endure. Motor development lags fan capability.
As to delivery; well, 4-6 weeks ......just the "normal" DS fans can be 6-14 weeks for me to get them in stock from order. Special orders even longer.
The DS-215? 1st off there is a waiting list for the limited production and unless one then wants to pop for International Express delivery cost the transit and Customs clearance to the USA can be 15-25 business days alone.
Total cost of DS-215HST, ESC, and batteries will be well in excess of $5000 so it wont be for those on a restricted budget.
Good luck.
- Mike
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Old Jul 08, 2016, 05:31 PM
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I'm an engineer myself Mike, but I accept your point that the motors needed to catch up. I've had a hard time finding good 10KW+ motors as well.

I ship international all the time, customs/delays are well known and not a problem.
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Old Jul 08, 2016, 06:38 PM
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Just curious, even if the motors caught up to sustain large 20kg+ thrust fan what would you expect to be the weight of your power generator???
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Old Jul 10, 2016, 08:50 PM
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I'd expect around 2kg, plus batteries, but at 20+kg I could deal with a bit heavier.

I've heard back from Vasa, he is willing to build/sell me a 145mm model, and is still working on the 300mm model. He is seeing 21kg from the 145, and hopes to see 30+kg from the 300.

Thanks for the information!
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 02:46 AM
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Quote-I'd expect around 2kg, plus batteries, but at 20+kg I could deal with a bit heavier.

By the 'power generator', I meant what would you expect to be the weight of batteries to power your fan with 20+ kg thrust.
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 01:22 PM
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Just for the sake of discussion:
20 kilos thrust = 44lbs or 196Newtons
To get this you may have to go about 300Amps on 14s and 15,000 to 16,000 watts

300Amps/hour is 5Amps/minute (5000mah/minute)
You want a 5 minute flight at 196N you are going to have to have 25,000mah available plus a reserve of 20% (discharge to 80% of pack capacity).
That equals about 31,250mah of battery pack. One can do the maths from there to figure out the total weight of LiPo's for the flight pack.

Now; keep this in mind, the motor on any current fan like this is not going to survive continuous running at rated thrust.......maybe only 70%, so maybe only 14kilos of thrust continuous with 20kilos available for a short period like takeoff.
So 14kilo/31lbs/137N is really your data point for realistic thrust available, and that is on a test stand with bellmouth on standard day conditions.

You really want/need 20kilos continuous there is going to have to be an upwards adjustment of your numbers.
Just saying.......
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Old Jul 11, 2016, 07:26 PM
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Thanks for explaining it to him the common sense way. There will "never-ever" be an EDF unit with above mentioned figures for practical use in model aeroplanes unless it was hooked up via cord to a power generator. Keep on dreaming about 21+kg from 145mm fan and totally forget about 30+.
Unfortunately, will have to stick with jet turbines.
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Old Jul 12, 2016, 06:36 PM
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This 5.7kg load of lipos gives me 2-2.5 minutes of flight time max. with some 17kg thrust on full stick as an example.
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Old Jul 12, 2016, 09:13 PM
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I did make a mistake earlier, the Vasa 145mm fan was bench tested at 14kg, not 21. That was at 46v, 220A, 25,700 RPM, on a bench stand with an inlet ring.

You are all correct, getting 20kg out of that size is not very feasible, certainly not efficient if it is even possible.

But the assumption that this is going on to a single EDF RC aircraft is incorrect, not that I blame you considering where I'm posting. I'm doing preliminary investigation on a special purpose project that will use more than one EDF in a heavy lift scenario. Batteries and runtime are important, but three minutes at full throttle is sufficient for a prototype.

For now I'm just trying to find what is out there, as there is a lot of one-off projects that people tried then abandoned. And yes, it may not be possible to do what is being asked of me, but I do have to turn over every stone. Thanks again henke for the Vasa links- All my google searches did not turn them up.

Mike, thanks for your numbers.

I hope to have a Vasa 145mm fan in a few weeks, and I do hope to see the Vasa 300mm unit when he gets one ready for me. I'll post test stand data when I get it.

The DS215-HST does look very nice, at around 24kg. I hope to see first adopters post numbers on it soon.
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