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Old Feb 13, 2012, 02:20 PM
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United States, CA, Livermore
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What are your favorite F3P for Realflight?

What are your favorite models for practicing F3P on Realflight? I am up to V5.5 and have downloaded several from the Knife edge swap pages but I haven't found a realistic slow flyer yet. Most require too much AOA and descend too quickly. thanks
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 01:27 PM
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Rocky Young's Avatar
United States, TX, Lubbock
Joined May 2011
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Originally Posted by Husafreak View Post
... I haven't found a realistic slow flyer yet.
In my experience, the RealFlight (and other) simulators are useful tools for learning how to set up your airplane for your indoor flying site, to test ideas as to how to improve your aircraft design, or to acquire practice. While I’m not an expert, I can share some of my experiences and insights.

One reason you experienced difficulty is probably because the simulated planes are too heavy and nose heavy for aerobatics. You need to get the virtual weight down, e.g., 130 grams or less, and shift the battery (or alter the weight distribution of the wing, fuselage, etc) to obtain the desired center of gravity. All of this is done by “editing” the simulated airplanes parameters.

Begin with the simulated “Great Planes Yak 54 Foamy” airplane and fly the plane in the RealFlight “Gym”. To improve flight characteristics of this or any other airplane, you can try changing the area or planform of the wing, fuselage, etc. The following images illustrate my modifications (as compared to the original).



If you are new to indoor flying, you might also modify the GYM airport. The modifications I recommend are first to remove obstacles, e.g., hoops, bleachers, etc. Second, I relocated the view point, i.e., so that you are viewing the flight as if you were standing along the edge of one wall. This simply requires changing the value of the “pilot spawn” (as you edit the GYM AIRPORT). The third modification I recommend is to raise the roof. The following images illustrate how the airplane will appear on the computer screen.



If you study videos of expert F3P flying, you will notice that the pilots are controlling the aircraft within a narrow range of speed. To achieve similar control, I recommend you attach your own transmitter to the RealFlight system and constrain the throttle settings to a narrow range. For example, you probably want to set the maximum throttle setting to a value that is just sufficient for the vertical performances and set the minimum setting at a substantial low speed. On my Spectrum DX8, I perform the above adjustments on the “Throttle Curve” option.

Other suggestions to consider are to use the mixing functions on your transmitter to minimize (or eliminate) coupling among the yaw/pitch/roll controls and to modify the properties the motor, the prop, and battery size (found in the parameters for the airplane fuselage).

I hope the above helps you practice indoor aerobatics on the RealFlight Simulator. I became interested in the simulators because of my lack of experience with the current flying . . . not having flown RC for about 15 years and new to indoor aerobatics. The simulator helped me acquire necessary stick-time when -- in my early attempts -- I kept flying the plane into the wall when trying to trim the airplane. Then I would have to go home, do the repairs, and wait two weeks to try again.
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 12:53 AM
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United States, CA, Livermore
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I will see if I can figure out how to make your suggestions on Realflight and let you know how it goes, thanks!
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 11:35 AM
Atleast It's in one piece
United Kingdom, North Weald Bassett
Joined Nov 2008
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Hi Rocky Young

Very good work and well explained encourages me to have another go at making one of the F3P models from RF fly a bit more like me own indoor model.

Thanks
Arcright
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 05:23 PM
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United States, TX, Lubbock
Joined May 2011
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I attached a hyperlink to a youtube video which illustrates the flight performance of my simulated F3P model. The actual model I'm currently flying is a 32" scratch-built plane with speed brakes (photo below). Powered by the small Dualsky 2212RTR-25T Xmotor with a 8 x 4 prop, the plane's ready-to-fly weight is 125 grams.

To simulate the flight characteristics, the simulated plane was designed with similar wing span and fuselage length but with lighter weight, i.e., 102 grams. The effects of the speed brakes were simulated by putting a 11.75 x 3.2 " prop on the motor.

I hope the material might promote a better understanding of flight simulators, their benefits and limitations.

MyRealFlight_F3P.mp4 (3 min 19 sec)


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Old Feb 25, 2012, 12:21 AM
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Very cool, flies right!
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 05:29 AM
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Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Young View Post
I attached a hyperlink to a youtube video which illustrates the flight performance of my simulated F3P model. The actual model I'm currently flying is a 32" scratch-built plane with speed brakes (photo below). Powered by the small Dualsky 2212RTR-25T Xmotor with a 8 x 4 prop, the plane's ready-to-fly weight is 125 grams.

To simulate the flight characteristics, the simulated plane was designed with similar wing span and fuselage length but with lighter weight, i.e., 102 grams. The effects of the speed brakes were simulated by putting a 11.75 x 3.2 " prop on the motor.

I hope the material might promote a better understanding of flight simulators, their benefits and limitations.
Rocky - I notice you are in Lubbock, are you going to the indoor fly-in in San Angelo next week? If you haven't been before, it's a really nice place to fly and they are planning on having a indoor pattern contest Friday evening (plus BBQ!).
Here is the event thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1542095
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 07:59 AM
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United States, TX, Lubbock
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Originally Posted by rmr24 View Post
are you going to the indoor fly-in in San Angelo next week?
Here is the event thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1542095
I wanted to go but, unfortunately, I have prior commitments that weekend. Maybe next year. Thanks for asking.
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 09:02 AM
Fly lower!
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West Texas
Joined Jan 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Young View Post
I wanted to go but, unfortunately, I have prior commitments that weekend. Maybe next year. Thanks for asking.
Plainview is also having an indoor event the last weekend in April, 28, 29th.

Did you redesign your realflight plane to look like yours? Looks like it should fly really well.

aerolite
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Aerolite:
1- "Plainview is also having an indoor event the last weekend in April, 28, 29th."
Reply: Thanks for the information I certainly plan to compete in regional contests again. However, I'm not sure whether I'll be ready by April of this year.

2- "Did you redesign your realflight plane to look like yours?"
Reply: The realflight plane looks like the Yak-54. I have not found a way to change the appearance of the planes in RealFlight.

3-"Looks like it should fly really well."
Reply: I have flown on a total of 4 occasions between October of last year and last week. The first 3 outings were with my scratched-built carbon rod plane which I flew into the wall or some other architectural structure multiple times. Thereafter, I built the smaller (opaque) depron plane. I flew this last week for the first time and successfully avoided crashing it into anything. I will fly this again this Tuesday with the objective of understanding its inverted and knife edge flight characteristics. Its vertical up and down speed was (pleasantly) very relaxing. Its level, upright flight has a noticeable nose-up attitude -- which I got to get use to. I'm very inexperienced and uncomfortable with the demanding rudder & throttle adjustments. While my actual airplane does not exhibit as strong precession torque as my simulated plane, to fly in the Lubbock indoor facility, it still relies a lot on the rudder authority and small throttle changes. This is very different from the outdoor pattern planes that I flew years ago. So right now, I have very little confidence that I can fly safely, if not precisely.
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Young View Post

Reply: I have flown on a total of 4 occasions between October of last year and last week. The first 3 outings were with my scratched-built carbon rod plane which I flew into the wall or some other architectural structure multiple times. Thereafter, I built the smaller (opaque) depron plane. I flew this last week for the first time and successfully avoided crashing it into anything. I will fly this again this Tuesday with the objective of understanding its inverted and knife edge flight characteristics. Its vertical up and down speed was (pleasantly) very relaxing. Its level, upright flight has a noticeable nose-up attitude -- which I got to get use to. I'm very inexperienced and uncomfortable with the demanding rudder & throttle adjustments. While my actual airplane does not exhibit as strong precession torque as my simulated plane, to fly in the Lubbock indoor facility, it still relies a lot on the rudder authority and small throttle changes. This is very different from the outdoor pattern planes that I flew years ago. So right now, I have very little confidence that I can fly safely, if not precisely.
Rocky - we've all been there! I remember the first time I tried to fly indoors, which was with areolite (who is my cousin) in a small gym. We spent about five hours in there and I didn't make one complete circuit!
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Sparta,WI,USA
Joined Nov 2000
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On my old RealFlight 3.5 simulator I had a computer savy friend install the Arrow. It is a depron biplane with very low wing loading. I do all my 3D practice on this. It is super slow and very responsive in all directions. Like the low rate and slow speed characteristics. This may not be the best simulator flyer but it has really helped me avoid gravity surges in my real flying. My indoor favorite right now is an old Bill Lowe Ghost, a milled depron biplane with plastic foodwrap covering. My outdoor flying favorite is anything from Twisted Hobbies.

Having fun....

RonJ
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Old Feb 28, 2012, 08:14 AM
Fly it like you stole it
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Joined Feb 2007
172 Posts
can you upload the finished plane?
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