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Old Oct 07, 2013, 06:52 AM
Registered User
France, IdF, Janville-sur-Juine
Joined Jun 2012
6 Posts
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first steps in flash steam

Hello,

After the built of my boiler for my Clyde Puffer boat,I'm interrested by building a flash steam boiler.
Not a flash steam boiler for "racer boat" but flash-steam for a "standard boat".

I show you my first trial,It work but with not enough power.
I wish for my project about 1.5 gal/hour of water at 90PSI.
The second point is, that I only want a gaz burner and not gasoline.
For the moment it's only 1.5 liter /hour.

link to you tube vidéo:

first attempt
essais flash steam (0 min 33 sec)


Home made burner
essais bruleur (1 min 10 sec)
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Last edited by scyllias91; Oct 07, 2013 at 06:56 AM. Reason: video added
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Old Oct 08, 2013, 12:21 AM
Grumpa Tom
Kmot's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Sep 2003
23,885 Posts
Very impressive looking! Making a coil that long is a real accomplishment!

What gas are you using? Propane? Butane?

I would like to learn more about your home made burner.
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Old Oct 08, 2013, 03:30 PM
Registered User
France, IdF, Janville-sur-Juine
Joined Jun 2012
6 Posts
Hello,


For the gaz it's standard "can" that we use in France for camping or light work of plumbing.Its 70%butane 30% propan.
I'll post a drawing of my burner when I disasembly it.
For the coil it's copper tube 3/16" normally use for car brake pipe.
There is 2 coils one inside the other about 10 feet long.

Eric
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Old Oct 08, 2013, 04:24 PM
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ooyah's Avatar
GLASGOW
Joined Feb 2011
306 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyllias91 View Post
Hello,

After the built of my boiler for my Clyde Puffer boat,I'm interrested by building a flash steam boiler.
Not a flash steam boiler for "racer boat" but flash-steam for a "standard boat".

I show you my first trial,It work but with not enough power.
I wish for my project about 1.5 gal/hour of water at 90PSI.
The second point is, that I only want a gaz burner and not gasoline.
For the moment it's only 1.5 liter /hour.

link to you tube vidéo:

first attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4M3U-DuXRU

Home made burner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aagXqYW7Eco
Hi Eric,
If I may comment on your Flash steam coil.

Flash steam requires 2- main components.

Pressure in the coil and very high heat.

From your video you are not producing flash steam as there is water dripping from the outlet steam pipe.
If it was flash steam or super heated steam you would have clear air before the steam started to condense in the atmosphere.

I am sure that your coil is of the wrong configuration as you are trying to push the flame down a narrow hole, I would suggest that you have a single coil but wined it around a taper mandrill with a very much bigger dia at the front reducing in dia at the rear..

As you are feeding the coil from your garden hose there is no pressure build up to cause flash steam, you will need to connect an engine up to the coil to produce this pressure build and this happens every time the engine valves are closed to the steam causing the pressure build up and I do feel that a standard gas can and burner will not be sufficient to produce flash steam at 90 P.S.I..

In my early experiments I too wanted to use L.P.G. but found that I had to make jets of a max of .025" which produced massive flame but it only lasted for about 5 mins before slowing down due to the amount of gas being used and the usual thing of too much gas reducing the pressure in the tank and reducing the tank temperature and the downward spiral of reducing the flame , from this I had to go to paraffin ( kerosene ).

In the past I have made 2- flash steam plants,
One a Poppet valve engine of 3/4" bore x 3/4" stroke with 2- burners with .018" jets and 22 ft of Stainless steel 316 tube.
The other a Poppet valve engine of similar design but 1.125" bore x 3/4" stroke with 32 ft of stainless 316 tube and 3- burners with .025" jets.

Both engines had engine driven water pump and fuel pumps ( paraffin )

Now I read that you don't wish to build a racing steam plant but you do need these 2- elements mentioned.
A good book on flash steam is ( EXPERIMENTAL FLASH STEAM X BENSON AND RAYMAN )

I hope these comments are of help.

George,
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Old Oct 09, 2013, 01:47 PM
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France, IdF, Janville-sur-Juine
Joined Jun 2012
6 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ooyah View Post
Hi Eric,
If I may comment on your Flash steam coil.

Flash steam requires 2- main components.

Pressure in the coil and very high heat.

From your video you are not producing flash steam as there is water dripping from the outlet steam pipe.
If it was flash steam or super heated steam you would have clear air before the steam started to condense in the atmosphere.

I am sure that your coil is of the wrong configuration as you are trying to push the flame down a narrow hole, I would suggest that you have a single coil but wined it around a taper mandrill with a very much bigger dia at the front reducing in dia at the rear..

As you are feeding the coil from your garden hose there is no pressure build up to cause flash steam, you will need to connect an engine up to the coil to produce this pressure build and this happens every time the engine valves are closed to the steam causing the pressure build up and I do feel that a standard gas can and burner will not be sufficient to produce flash steam at 90 P.S.I..

In my early experiments I too wanted to use L.P.G. but found that I had to make jets of a max of .025" which produced massive flame but it only lasted for about 5 mins before slowing down due to the amount of gas being used and the usual thing of too much gas reducing the pressure in the tank and reducing the tank temperature and the downward spiral of reducing the flame , from this I had to go to paraffin ( kerosene ).

In the past I have made 2- flash steam plants,
One a Poppet valve engine of 3/4" bore x 3/4" stroke with 2- burners with .018" jets and 22 ft of Stainless steel 316 tube.
The other a Poppet valve engine of similar design but 1.125" bore x 3/4" stroke with 32 ft of stainless 316 tube and 3- burners with .025" jets.

Both engines had engine driven water pump and fuel pumps ( paraffin )

Now I read that you don't wish to build a racing steam plant but you do need these 2- elements mentioned.
A good book on flash steam is ( EXPERIMENTAL FLASH STEAM X BENSON AND RAYMAN )

I hope these comments are of help.

George,


Hi,

Thank you very much George for your answer.
I reed many of you post about flash steam,but my as I wrote my goal is to make normal boat and no racer it 's why I want to use gaz and copper coil.
The video was made with a standard burner,I make new test with my home made burner and new design of coil with better results.
When I ll make new test ,I will post new informations.

Thank you to read me.

Eric
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Old Oct 09, 2013, 04:19 PM
Registered User
ooyah's Avatar
GLASGOW
Joined Feb 2011
306 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyllias91 View Post
Hi,

Thank you very much George for your answer.
I reed many of you post about flash steam,but my as I wrote my goal is to make normal boat and no racer it 's why I want to use gaz and copper coil.
The video was made with a standard burner,I make new test with my home made burner and new design of coil with better results.
When I ll make new test ,I will post new informations.

Thank you to read me.

Eric
Eric,

Here is a proposal for you to consider,
Make your coil in a taper as your existing double coil will not produce high pressure steam.

Allow plenty of space for the flame to go into the casing and in between and around the coils.
Also make a burner which will burn liquid as well as gas, you will need a vaporizer around the flame tube of your burner, make the flame tube as thin as possible.
With this you can experiment with bigger jets in the burner until you get the set up that you want.

I hope that this helps.

What type of engine are you going to use ?

George.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 04:22 AM
Registered User
France, IdF, Janville-sur-Juine
Joined Jun 2012
6 Posts
hello,


Thank you very much for your help.

Yes I'll try with gaz in liquid phase.
Could you give me size and length of coil for the image that you send?
Do you have links or web site with same construction of flash steam.I don't found,maybe I don' t use right terms in Google.I'm not very friendly with "english spoken"

Eric
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 06:40 PM
Registered User
ooyah's Avatar
GLASGOW
Joined Feb 2011
306 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyllias91 View Post
hello,


Thank you very much for your help.

Yes I'll try with gaz in liquid phase.
Could you give me size and length of coil for the image that you send?
Do you have links or web site with same construction of flash steam.I don't found,maybe I don' t use right terms in Google.I'm not very friendly with "english spoken"

Eric
Hi Eric,

I think that it will be impossible to create flash steam using a standard plumbers type blow lamp with L/P/G.

What you have to remember about flash steam is that it's very difficult to control and in my opinion is not suitable for a normal steam boat it's very much " lite the blue touch paper and stand back "

If your intention is for a normal steam boat you could try making a coil by winding it around a taper mandrill, 1.75" dia down to 1.25" dia using about 12- 13 ft of copper tube with spacing between each coil of .25" with the cold water going down to the cold end and steam to the engine from the hot end.

With this arrangement you will produce Super heated steam, not flash steam, and difficult to control.

For a boat I would recommend some arrangement that you have a head of water in a boiler but a fast steamer which will be controllable.

Here are some pics of a Scott type boiler by A Rayman which has a copper boiler of 2" dia with 9 coils coming out of the bottom, forming a circle and then back into the boiler.
I have made one of them and it can be used up to 150 P.S.I. and is controllable, the burner was 1.125" dia with a .018" jet and powered by paraffin.

I have my doubts on using the camping gas fuel and a plumbers blow lamp but as I have never tried this I will look forward to how you proceed.

I have never created a web sight as in all of my experimenting it was all done on my own as there was nobody that had already done such work.

Here are some pics of the boiler that I speak off.

You still have not said what type of engine you propose to use.

George.
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