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Old Aug 30, 2013, 09:17 AM
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Thanks, I didn't know that about the "1." I'll look for that in the future. I would think that even a single layer, compared to the factory cowl, would be a lot more durable anyway.

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I understand the soda bottles are double layer, the milkshake maybe on single layer.
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Old Sep 01, 2013, 07:26 AM
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Quiz, here is the E-Starter with a 2650mah 3s battery. The darn thing is a floater even with 2x the battery needed. You will love yours as lite as it is. I can get 20 minutes flight time out of a 2650mah if I behave and drone around. With the Daughters and a 2650mah a half hour is not even pushing the battery but a killer on my attention span.

GWS E-Starter 2650mah 3s battery (3 min 41 sec)
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Old Sep 01, 2013, 05:04 PM
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Hey, thanks for the video! Today was the maiden of my Estarter. I like it a lot! But, you must have a lot more motor in yours than I do in mine. You can almost go straight up...mine, on the other hand, is barely holding it's own at full throttle.

I like that it floated around nicely...Today, we even had a few thermals that started to toss her about a little bit, but not too bad, a cold front coming through this morning in advance of some rain and thunderstorms.

But, very early this morning, around 7am, we had no wind. Even at that, I had her at full throttle most of the time, which has me thinking already that I might want to upgrade the motor to something more powerful than the Emax CF2822, which is a 140 watt, 800kv, 370 class motor. I used a 10 x 4.7S prop, and flew for about 7-8 minutes on a 1000 mAh 3S battery. It might have flown longer. I just used a timer on the radio, since this was the maiden flight. I figured I should be conservative on the first time out with respect to estimating flight times.

With those thermals, and because I was already at full throttle to move her along slow to moderately in totally calm winds...I decided that I'd like to have a little more power to call upon if I needed it. The motor I have in it is an extra one that I just had lying around, so no big deal getting a new motor. I thought it was adequate for just mild flying around, etc...But, if you needed anything more to pull out of a dive or something, it was already at max most of the time.

Got to do something with that tail wheel too. The thin tail wheel wire is just not strong enough to support the weight of the model sufficiently to keep from bending slightly, so that you have to constantly bend it back into position to remain in a straight path on take-off. But, I was kind of surprised that it was actually pretty durable, and did hold up fine turning the model with authority on the runway, and absorbing shock on landing, etc...But, it just didn't provide sufficient directional control to keep a straight path on take-off.

So, with all of that in mind, I've decided to modify the plane for a front steerable nose wheel. I've removed the cowl, the motor, and prepped the front of the foam firewall for a piece of lexan that will adhere flat to the front of the fire wall. I want to flat mount the motor, probably a new motor with more power, and a front gear mechanism of some kind, a Dubro add-on, or something from Hobby King. I've already moved the front two wheels back on the fuselage to the optional rear position provided by GWS for the two wheels. I'll mount the steerable gear bracketing to the lexan below the motor. Then, I plan to tie the front gear horn into the rudder servo arm with a piece of piano wire fished through the front of the fuselage back to the rudder servo arm.

The mod will probably take a few weeks 'cause I'm back on the road again Tuesday

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Originally Posted by semperfi1970 View Post
Quiz, here is the E-Starter with a 2650mah 3s battery. The darn thing is a floater even with 2x the battery needed. You will love yours as lite as it is. I can get 20 minutes flight time out of a 2650mah if I behave and drone around. With the Daughters and a 2650mah a half hour is not even pushing the battery but a killer on my attention span.
Tuesday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ5W2_N-ohs
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Old Sep 02, 2013, 08:40 AM
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Hey Quiz. The CF2822 is the motor I use in the Daughters blue E-Starter. Try a 1170 GWS prop for a little bit more power. In the yellow E-Starter I am running a Emax BL2220/07 spinning a 8x8 APC. A real good motor for the E-Starter is the Emax GF2215/20 and a GWS 1060 prop, if you are using the stick mount that came with the CF2220 then it is a direct bolt up for the GF2215/20. I am running the GF2215/20 in the Formosa and it gives me a good balance of speed and power. And to think I had a GT2820/05 and a 50c 2600mah 4s battery stuffed into the nose of the Dogfighter. Speed thrills and kills
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Old Sep 02, 2013, 05:37 PM
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Oh NO, already with the Dogfighter???? What happened? Is it salvageable?

Those who play with fire (ie: speed and thrills) can also get burned Thanks for the advice on the motors! I'll be looking them over.

There's an interesting thread here on RC Groups concerning the three wheel trike gear for the Estarter. The pilot says he built his trike a little too heavy, and later opted to build a tail dragger again. He had to add about 1.6 ounces to the nose in order to balance out his trike plane. But, others have commented that their trikes balanced perfectly. So, I'm thinking that if anything mine might end up being a little nose heavy with a motor upgrade...but, I hope not.

The guy seemed like he just got carried away with respect to mods (like me), and it caused his Estarter to be tail heavy. I would have assumed that it would have been just the opposite with the Estarter. The tail end of the fusealge seems like it would normally be really light if built according to kit instructions.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1005801&page=3

After reviewing the build thread, it looks like I can go with the stick mount, which will push the motor out forward of the firewall, giving me plenty of clearance to mount a front gear mechanism under the motor. I like that, and won't probably go with a flat mounted motor after seeing this thread. I was a bit concerned that by flat mounting a motor, I might not have enough room under the motor to mount the front wheel mechanism anyway, plus I think the cowl will fit better with the stick mounted motor.


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Originally Posted by semperfi1970 View Post
Hey Quiz. The CF2822 is the motor I use in the Daughters blue E-Starter. Try a 1170 GWS prop for a little bit more power. In the yellow E-Starter I am running a Emax BL2220/07 spinning a 8x8 APC. A real good motor for the E-Starter is the Emax GF2215/20 and a GWS 1060 prop, if you are using the stick mount that came with the CF2220 then it is a direct bolt up for the GF2215/20. I am running the GF2215/20 in the Formosa and it gives me a good balance of speed and power. And to think I had a GT2820/05 and a 50c 2600mah 4s battery stuffed into the nose of the Dogfighter. Speed thrills and kills
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Old Sep 02, 2013, 07:05 PM
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Quiz, I was bring the plane down from the clouds WOT lining up on the field for a speed run. All was well except I had little to no elevator response. It was a display of green, orange, white and dirt flying down the field. I have been able to make some crash repairs in the past. This thing is beyond repair as there were many small pieces in a 40 yard path across the field. Most of the foam is compressed beyond boiling back to shape, the motor can is crushed, ESC cracked in half and two metal gear servos stripped. There is so much carbon and glass rod in the wing I was able to save it but would never trust it at speed. I decided to buy a new one as I have had so much fun with the last one. I am giving serious thought to getting a GWS EPS Spitfire to tinker with. I am leaning toward the Emax 450 speed and a APC 7x6 prop for it. I'm thinking with limited throws it should track real nice, after all it is a Spitfire.
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Old Sep 06, 2013, 09:21 AM
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I read a book recently about a Worldwar II Spitfire Pilot who said that he was significantly impressed with the way they flew in real life. Reading that pilot's escapades and opinions of the flight characteristics of the Spitfire design has me wanting one too.

But, I have so many to deal with right now, I've put the idea on hold for now, plus the whole issue of EPO versus EPS, and not knowing if I'll like a plane made out of EPS. I figured I'd build the P51 first (EPS), which I already have, and see if I like EPS before getting the Spitfire.

On the other hand, not knowing GWS' plans with respect to manufacturing war birds in the future, perhaps obtaining the Spitfire now would be the wise thing to do.

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I am giving serious thought to getting a GWS EPS Spitfire to tinker with. I am leaning toward the Emax 450 speed and a APC 7x6 prop for it. I'm thinking with limited throws it should track real nice, after all it is a Spitfire.
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Old Sep 06, 2013, 06:52 PM
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Heck Quiz, we should buy up some EPS GWS kits. Caliber Hobby has the 35" planes for $45. Do a google search for frchobby, they claim to have EPO Spits in stock for $39. About two months ago I tried to buy one and canceled the order after waiting a few weeks for delivery. You may have better luck.
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Old Sep 06, 2013, 09:02 PM
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I wonder if their descriptions are accurate at frchobby. I wonder if the ones they have are actually EPO and not EPS...If so, I would buy one. But, it's my understanding that only some of their models, ie:F4U, GWS40, Estarter, etc...are EPO, but that many of the rest of the models haven't been converted over to EPO from EPS by GWS. What's your take on it? I'm worried that frc's descriptions might be in error. But, even at that, I'm not totally opposed to experimenting with EPS. But, if I had a choice, I'd rather have it in EPO.

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Heck Quiz, we should buy up some EPS GWS kits. Caliber Hobby has the 35" planes for $45. Do a google search for frchobby, they claim to have EPO Spits in stock for $39. About two months ago I tried to buy one and canceled the order after waiting a few weeks for delivery. You may have better luck.
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Old Sep 07, 2013, 07:56 AM
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Yah, Frchobby seems a tad sketchy to me. The folk wolf 190 and AT6 Texan are also made of EPO, finding them is the problem. The Spit would be a blast in EPS or EPO, I have yet to have a poor flying Spit. Dynam makes one heck of a Spit (I have two) but the size is a turn off to me as you can hand launch but they are to big to belly land without harming them. I think I will order a EPS Spit today just for the fun of it, who knows I may love it.
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Old Sep 07, 2013, 08:08 PM
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I sent frchobby an email to check on the descriptions, EPO or EPS, and to see if they have the planes in stock. I haven't heard back from them. I checked-up on them a little bit too. They're a local hobby shop in NY that operates under a different name. "FRCHOBBY" is sort of a pseudonym for the actual name of the shop. They don't seem to have much in the way of complaints online. I'll let you know if they respond...

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Yah, Frchobby seems a tad sketchy to me. The folk wolf 190 and AT6 Texan are also made of EPO, finding them is the problem. The Spit would be a blast in EPS or EPO, I have yet to have a poor flying Spit. Dynam makes one heck of a Spit (I have two) but the size is a turn off to me as you can hand launch but they are to big to belly land without harming them. I think I will order a EPS Spit today just for the fun of it, who knows I may love it.
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Old Sep 10, 2013, 05:45 PM
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Well, no reply from "frc hobby" as of yet...

I completed the trike conversion on the EStarter, and put a new Emax GF2215/20 motor in her. The conversion to trike gear, and the motor installation, as it relates to necessary clearances up front for the front gear, and the 9 x 4.7SF prop...everything turned out great.

With respect to the motor, the existing 28mm round plastic stick mount from the old CF2822 worked perfectly. I went to a 9 x 4.7SF prop for the GF2215/20, which should give me plenty of thrust, more than what I was getting from the CF2822 using a 10 x 4.7SF prop.

With the new trike landing gear system, there's a lot more turning authority, and landing gear stability. Once accomplished, I cut the rear tail wheel off at the bottom of the rudder. I tested the turning authority of the new front gear, just on taxi, no wing, and it tracks perfectly, turns with authority, and seems to work very well.

I haven't flown it yet, but it balanced out perfectly, even after replacing the Emax CF2822 with a new Emax GF2215/20 Outrunner Motor, which is slightly heavier I believe.

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I used a Dubro steerable nose gear with the round base, and round base stick mount motor mount, both from HURC. I trimmed the round base of the stick mount to a rectangle shape on the right, so that the steerable gear base would fit more to the right in relation to the stick position, so as to center the front wheel in relation to the center of the plane.

Then, I relieved the foam so that the now rectangular base of the mount fits flush with the foam when the stick is inserted into the lower stick hole. Then, I Gorilla glued the stick in place, as well as the back face of the stick mount to the recessed area of the foam. It's very solid. It all fits nicely under the cowl, and you really can't see the mount or the shock absorbing coil, nothing other than the gear rod sticking out from the bottom of the cowl.

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I also made another cowl, this time in red. I theorize that I'll like the visibility of red color versus blue at a distance while in flight. The red cowl was my second attempt at making the soda bottle cowl, and it turned out with less of a rippled effect on the finish. I had to notch out a small 1" three sided rectangle on the bottom of the cowl to acommodate the new trike gear sticking through the bottom of the cowl.

I also removed the strut supports that are mounted on the side of the fuselage...I decided to not use struts, since it flew fine without them before. I'm using rubber bands, and a velcro back up in the wing saddle, and it's solid as can be. Plus, the struts only serve to wreak havoc on the foam if it crashes.

I'm thinking of putting lights on her next, but I've never done it...
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Old Sep 10, 2013, 07:31 PM
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Looking real good Quiz. That E-Starter should fly great the way you have it setup. Frchobby failed to respond to me within a 21 day window regarding a order I placed so I canceled the order through Paypal. I doubt they will contact you and its a shame because they just may be sitting on a gold mine of EPO birds. Go for the lights, the forum is full of how to if you get in a bind.
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Old Sep 12, 2013, 04:23 PM
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Some thoughts...

I find myself more drawn to a design that has a front steerable gear where I'm planning to land on hard surfaces, versus the GWS tail draggers, specifically. The GWS tail draggers are really weak back there. But, maybe the tail draggers can be upgraded to a more durable rear wheel, larger diameter wire. But, I'm not sure the foam in the rudder would support it. Of course, when leaving the gear completely off, and just belly landing it, the weak rear wheel is a moot issue.

Anyway, I would assume that GWS is still planning to produce the Estarter. I really like the Estarter converted to a front steerable wheel for hard surface landings. The conversion was pretty easy, seems pretty durable, and you can't beat the cost of the Estarter. I'm particularly using the Estarter as a surrogate for the Parkzone T28 to practice hard surface landings, trying to improve my landing skills on hard surfaces. The Estarter converted to the front steerable gear is a really good alternative to investing in the T28 for practice on hard surface landings when you compare the cost, the Estarter being literally half the cost with electronics compared to the T28. The T28 flies a lot better, it's bigger, and just a more elaborate kit, plus it's a T28, naturally easy to fly. But, the cost of crashing is a lot less with the Estarter, should you crash, plus it's very durable, EPO.

I think the theory that GWS may be going completely out of business may be mistaken. Instead, it seems like maybe they've decided to remove some of the war birds from their offering, and the rest of the stuff will continue to be available. I see no continued shortage of the Slow Stick for example, which seems to be trickling into the dealers on a regular basis, along with some of the other models in EPO.

With regard to considering a purchase of the Spitfire, maybe they're in the process of converting everything over to EPO in the war bird series, and EPS is going to be ultimately discontinued. If that be the case, I suspect I might regret buying EPS now, just to have EPO show up in a year or whenever. Plus, I already have the P51 in EPS, and one is probably enough until I can gauge my own acceptance of the EPS foam. I think the cheapest Spitfire I've been able to find is at "AlleRC," on sale for $51.00. But, it almost seems like the dealers are divesting themselves of EPS war bird inventory, offering them "on sale," and not restocking...So, maybe they're preparing for a product change that they know is coming from GWS.

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Looking real good Quiz. That E-Starter should fly great the way you have it setup. Frchobby failed to respond to me within a 21 day window regarding a order I placed so I canceled the order through Paypal. I doubt they will contact you and its a shame because they just may be sitting on a gold mine of EPO birds. Go for the lights, the forum is full of how to if you get in a bind.
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Old Sep 12, 2013, 10:13 PM
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Quiz, Caliberhobby has the EPS Spit for $45. Here is a pic of my third Dogfighter. Painted it Fluorescent red but it came out pink. I think I will leave it pink for now. Nothing like rubbing in that you just out performed your buddies with a pink plane. I guess it would be like having the fastest car at the strip and its pink.
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